Not By Works
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So in view of the context of James 2, that later "testing" of said faith (already in existence) is the context. When he was known by other men as the "friend of God" (2Chron20:7, where that verse says he was called by men the friend of God / "Abraham thy friend"). James 2:22-23 "faith made perfect [G5048 - teleioó ]" and "and he was called the friend of God". [this is in view of what was stated in v.21 and the specific word "WHEN"]
Maybe you missed these two scriptures.
One is an Old Testament scripture and the other is Paul in Hebrews quoting that Old Testament scripture to show that it is obedience and faith that must go together.
Abraham believed and OBEYED God BEFORE the scripture speaking of Abraham's faith:
Genesis 12:1
Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you; 4 So Abram went, as the Lord had told him; and Lot went with him.
Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.
Now read this:
Genesis 22:18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."
Genesis 26:4-5 I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws."
If you think you clean yourself before God and then he accepts you.....you are in for a rude awaking one day...
Why are you speaking of "believed" [God] and "faith" as though they were wholly distinct things?
So what....he is not speaking of salvation.......wake up pal before it is too late....
That told me nothing and was nothing more than a diversion....yep...let me guess......Mormon, False Jehovah's Witness or some daughter of Catholocism....who are you associated with...what religious denomination
Greek is big on this thread.
When plain simple English convicts....
Some run to the Greek,,,, as if that would change what God simply states.
Another Greek export.
We have so many on this thread.
Could you explain the aorist tense to us?
Jesus accepts us like the woman caught in adultery, the moment we start talking with Him.
He talks to anyone who will listen.
From eternity He calls, from before we were born, we are predestined to walk into eternity.
When does a seed become a plant, when does a plant start to bare fruit?
It does not matter the exact moment, but you know afterwards it has taken place.
So is the mystery of going from darkness into light, death into life.
C S Lewis put it in terms of slowly becoming more real, where we are like ghosts, knowing
a taste of life but not actually being partakers. As we dwell more with God on His Holy mountain
we become more real, consistent, connected, loving, following, obeying, unstoppable.
This is why Paul talks of sowing to the Spirit and not the flesh, pressing on, working things through,
confessing ones sins, seeking to support, love and share with others. What we are at the end is very
different from how we begin. But so is life, a baby is very different from a full grown adult, so equally
in Christ. Some would make you believe there is no difference, it is more like being frozen in time until
we meet Him.
I have heard his phrase "that was never its purpose"
The law was given to bring blessing on people. Breaking the law ended in harm, the law showed
how a good functioning society should work. Israel did not succeed to obey for very long over its
long history.
The temple existed to bring forgiveness for sins, once a sacrifice had been offered. It dealt with the
gap between our behaviour and our ambitions or aspirations.
Legalists will talk about condemnation and obeying every word.
They miss God has always listened to people who in their weakness desire to go after His heart,
as David did. And the Lords way of dealing with people has never changed. Convicted of sin, repent,
turn to God and walk in His ways and He will bless you.
This has been an eternal principle. I have wondered if Adam and Eve had repented would things have
been different, or is that not the point of the story. You have to have mortal birth and generations of people
to fill eternity were there is no birth anymore because there is no death, and equally no choosing of following
God or not, without eternal consequences.
We can see and identify from these discussions who are the servants of God and who are not...who are righteous and who are wicked.
Jesus told His disciples to preach the Gospel unto all nations and teach them to OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS. (Matthew 28:18-20)
Now those who adhere to the Lord's instructions are called "IDIOTIC", WORKS SALVATIONISTS, SINLESS PERFECTIONISTS, SALVATION LOSERS ETC. Insulting and mocking the idea of OBEDIENCE TO GOD as PART OF SALVATION. (See Hebrews 5:7-9)
They are calling evil GOOD and good EVIL. (Isaiah 5:20-24)
What is NOTICEABLE is how this people PROUDLY and CONTINUOUSLY calling themselves "SINNERS" even after claiming at the same time that they were BORN AGAIN of incorruptible seed.
(A double personality suffering from SCHIZOPHRENIA who love to DOUBLE TALK.)
I am not insulting or mocking anyone but just EXPOSING them to lead them to godly sorrow and somehow REPENT.
...When I say to a wicked man, ‘YOU WILL SURELY DIE,’ and you do not warn him or speak out to DISSUADE HIM FROM HIS EVIL WAYS in order TO SAVE HIS LIFE, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you ACCOUNTABLE for his blood. But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself. “Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you do WARN the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, HE WILL SURELY LIVE because HE TOOK WARNING, and you will have saved yourself.” Ezekiel 3:18-21
... “Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be SHAMEFULLY EXPOSED.” Revelation 16:15
...“YOU HAVE SAID HARSH THINGS AGAINST ME,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘IT IS FUTILE TO SERVE GOD. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “THEY WILL BE MINE,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I WILL SPARE THEM, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between THE RIGHTEOUS and THE WICKED, between THOSE WHO SERVE God and THOSE WHO DO NOT. Malachi 3:13-18
...I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in LEADING THE GENTILES TO OBEY GOD BY WHAT I HAVE SAID AND DONE—
Romans 15:18
What are you teaching?
Aren't you leading believers to DISOBEY GOD?
Paul was worried that some of them may be deceived just like eve was deceived.
...But I AM AFRAID that just as Eve was DECEIVED by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be LED ASTRAY from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:3
The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.
These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)
...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13
...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2
How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?
We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.
Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?
..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.
...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Matthew 24:10-14, 24
...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;
...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6-7
...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”... Genesis 3:1-19
Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.
The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God. If they were deceived, why can't you?
Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why refuse to take heed of them?
So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?[
...But I AM AFRAID that just as Eve was DECEIVED by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be LED ASTRAY from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:3
The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.
These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)
...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13
...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2
How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?
We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.
Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?
..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.
...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Matthew 24:10-14, 24
...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;
...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6-7
...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”... Genesis 3:1-19
Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.
The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God. If they were deceived, why can't you?
Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why refuse to take heed of them?
So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?[
So you water down the law and think your ok?
Here is the proposition it makes sense to bring judgement and condemnation on oneself beyond that
which God demands.
Only someone who believes God forgives sinners who still wilfully continue in sin, so exagurating sin is
not problem.
Let us look at scripture, because Jesus declares the fate of such as these.
For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
Matt 7:2
So if as a man one says I am a sinner doomed to hell because I continually sin like ....... why should God not accept
this self condemnation and just send you there?
Listen to all Jesus's parables. They are full of people desiring mercy, knowing their state but pleading for forgiveness.
What do you do with people who know their sin and refuse to resolve it, and make up more sins which they are guilty
of as if God who hates sin, will just ignore this?
It is like going to ones boss who wants to fire you, and giving them another 100 reasons why they should do it.
There is no shortage of sinners who fail.
It is the righteous, those who hunger and thirst after His ways that there is a shortage of, the people of the Kingdom.
What does Jesus say
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.
Matt 5:6
Liars will claim Jesus is lying, we can never find a righteous walk, but with their own words they condemn themselves.
I have to thank EG today. He brought new light to a problem.
Beneath each sinner is a log fire. On judgement day it will be lit.
Pilling on more logs does not help the problem of removing it and making one safe, it has the opposite
effect and makes the fire bigger. But in their foolishness, the idea is the fire has been removed and
adding logs simply just means more is removed. Very odd logic, because everyone can see it just makes
the judgement even more valid and bigger.
And what does their heart tell them along with their conscience?
They are more unhappy and lost than when they first began.
Just read the posts. Praise is not their call, love is not their hearts desire, encouragement to things of
God, or blessing of those who wish to follow, rather the exact opposite.
But then the fruit of the lips comes from the heart, and where there is no light, darkness fills the void,
and of course they do not know what rises out, because they cannot see it, so it must be alright.
Praise God He saved us out of sin to deliver us cleansed, purified and made whole to His Kingdom.
Thank you Jesus that you listen to the repentant hearts of your people, and answer their call to love
and serve others in your word and life, Amen
Beneath each sinner is a log fire. On judgement day it will be lit.
Pilling on more logs does not help the problem of removing it and making one safe, it has the opposite
effect and makes the fire bigger. But in their foolishness, the idea is the fire has been removed and
adding logs simply just means more is removed. Very odd logic, because everyone can see it just makes
the judgement even more valid and bigger.
And what does their heart tell them along with their conscience?
They are more unhappy and lost than when they first began.
Just read the posts. Praise is not their call, love is not their hearts desire, encouragement to things of
God, or blessing of those who wish to follow, rather the exact opposite.
But then the fruit of the lips comes from the heart, and where there is no light, darkness fills the void,
and of course they do not know what rises out, because they cannot see it, so it must be alright.
Praise God He saved us out of sin to deliver us cleansed, purified and made whole to His Kingdom.
Thank you Jesus that you listen to the repentant hearts of your people, and answer their call to love
and serve others in your word and life, Amen
I have noticed how much time people dedicate to share.
It is something to be admired. And the actually care and desire that people might know their
Lord and Saviour.
It is a shock to meet the hard hearted and indoctrinated who simple disregard Jesus's words and
then lie about their position. But then those who do not care about judgement and their Lord,
are an unusual self condemning group, and most know how eternally this is the worst place ever
to be, like Judas going to the Sanhedrin while appearing to follow Jesus. A truly sad place to be.