Not By Works

[FollowHisSteps]

Again are you stating God does not know those who are His???
We do not need to prove our salvation to God, that seems very silly to me.

I like this point. Until Abraham offered Isaac on the altar, it was all speculation.
It is the action that shows the faith is real. If the action never comes the faith is fake.

Think about this. People say, commit themselves, feel all the emotions about intent and then
do nothing while others decide and act. It is those who decide and act who are real.

The lie is God knows. No God sees the future real action that shows the real faith.
Now an action maybe just speaking words, it maybe something more physical and time dependent.
But without actions it is just intent. Words sometimes kill, sometimes save lives. They are not passive
necessarily, because they can be linked to others actions and consequences.

Once you remove actions from faith you have dreams alone or just myths, fake delusions, vapour ware.
Who would defend such things except those living in delusion and denied reality and concrete results.
Who would believe God the creator came to bring to His people nothing by myths and fake delusions?

People who do not know Him and have not actually believed Him. So beware where you really are.
Are you actually in action of faith or just the delusion of faith?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Do not upset yourselves, your compromises with sin will just send you to hell.
Thus spoke the enemy of people and of God.

Who should you fear most? Humans or the living God, the creator of All things.
I fear the creator, because I know in His arms there is love and life eternal,
if I bow the knee and follow in His ways, Amen.

I am commenting on the reaction to the above post by others.

It is a first for me.
On a christian forum to be told by picture one is a wolf, and the example is saying sin will send you to hell.

If a wolf is saying sin will send you to hell, is Jesus saying sin will send you to heaven?

Sin is murdering, stealing, adultery, lying, dishonouring parents, coverting etc.
But now this is all ok, and warning people about judgement and moral consequences evil.

Where are the real people of God here? You are beyond saving to talk like this. It is like
blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. If Jesus were to speak directly to you, you would still say the
same things. But then maybe this is the whole point. You are so desperate to get rid of the
witness of Gods people you will go this far, because the hatred runs that deep.

Den of vipers is Jesus's summary of such behaviour.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Just so we can all see this.....yes as @mailmandan posted in his meme......beware.

Hi UnderGrace,

So what do you think the punishment for sin is?
Heaven or hell? Death or life?

And does the answer make you a sheep or a wolf?
In the end your playing of games is just a farce, because as we all know sin kills

But then playing games tries to make things look more significant,

 

[FollowHisSteps]

View attachment 195273

Thankyou for the warning. A wolf comes to destroy the flock by destroying them.
Walking in sin destroys the believer and leads to judgement as an unbeliever.

Is this what you desire for the flock?

Now I know some here have a disturbing past which the Lord delivered them out of.
Do you truly want to go back to that life, or forward to walk in Jesus's footsteps walking
in His love and sharing it with others?

Foolish middle class idiots who lived sheltered lives, fell out of legalism, had a fit about
condemnation and bitterness and now want to destroy everything they feel condemned them
would happily lead you to hell rather than resolving real sin issues and walk in purity and Holiness
with Christ. It is always your choice who you listen to, but His sheep listen to His voice and follow
His way.

My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
John 10:27

So my brothers and sisters in Christ, Amen, He delivers us out of the hands of the enemy.
And in the Name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth they have no authority over us.

 

[posthuman]

Do leaves on a seed sprouting show the seed is alive or dead?
No leaves seed is dead. And if dead there will never be any leaves, ever.

But a live seed has to produces leaves and a root quickly or else it will die, normally dry up, or
a bird will come along and eat it, just as Jesus described.

Good works in terms of salvation probably mean spiritual words being spoken by the new believer
after coming to faith. Bit like connecting up the circuitry, not there, no circuitry.

It really is Peter Jens, ain't it?

I always like you Peter. no matter whether i disagreed with you or not you were always calm and cordial, and it was always clear to me that you really were thinking, and really were making your best effort to sort out the truth. I love you

 

[gb9]

We are saved by obeying the Gospel

We remain saved by obeying His commandments and His doctrine, which is called the truth.


Obedience.


This is undeniable.


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23




He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4




Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9



Brother, you are seriously living in denial.






JPT

the person in denial would be you.

it has been pointed out to you numerous times that the same man , in the same letter, said after speaking about keeping the commands goes on to say that the commands are to believe in the name of the Son and love one another.

believing in Jesus is obeying .

you can pretend these verses do not exist, but they do.

you choose to ignore this.

I choose to believe it.

 

[Argueless]

Amen to that.......a person could do 30,000 good works a day in the name of Jesus and still bust hell wide open.....works do not save or keep saved.....they all peddle the same thing the MANY PEDDLE....Lord, Lord, have we not done.....blah blah blah in your name...........bad day for them coming

Paul was worried that some of them may be deceived just like eve was deceived.

...But I AM AFRAID that just as Eve was DECEIVED by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be LED ASTRAY from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:3

The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.

These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)

...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13

...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2

How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?

We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.

Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?

..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Matthew 24:10‭-‬14‭, ‬24

...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11:13‭-‬15

And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6‭-‬7

...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”... Genesis 3:1‭-‬19

Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.

The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God. If they were deceived, why can't you?

Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why refuse to take heed of them?

So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?

 

[cv5]

Both what I said and what you said is encapsulated into the one truth......repent means to change one's mind and agree with God.....the law condemns as guilty and points to the cure...faith in Christ......one must understand guilt before they can understand the cure.....

Indeed. Unfortunately I cannot recall the exact quote, but one must recognize and accept God's guilty verdict, agree with it, legitimately repent from the heart, receive the only Savior, and then also accept the acquittal in Christ Jesus.

Something like that.....
If anyone can find the quote and attribution please post it....

 

[UnderGrace]

Indeed. Unfortunately I cannot recall the exact quote, but one must recognize and accept God's guilty verdict, agree with it, legitimately repent from the heart, receive the only Savior, and then also accept the acquittal in Christ Jesus.

Something like that.....
If anyone can find the quote and attribution please post it....

Excellent really like how you framed this, these are His terms.

....and all this will happen once, in one moment in time, like the physical birth.

physical birth cannot be undone

spiritual birth cannot be undone

No repeats
A once and for all deal.

We cannot be born again more than once, if we should fall from grace (move away from our place of surrender and yielding to the vine) you cannot go back to try and be born again, again...........what you need to do is move on towards maturity in Christ.

This is new covenant we do not put Christ to open shame by saying He did not save us completely and that we need to repeat the act like in the old covenant.

Hebrews
4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened (born again) who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6and then have fallen away—to be restored again to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.

 

[VCO]

I like this point. Until Abraham offered Isaac on the altar, it was all speculation.
It is the action that shows the faith is real. If the action never comes the faith is fake.

Think about this. People say, commit themselves, feel all the emotions about intent and then
do nothing while others decide and act. It is those who decide and act who are real.

The lie is God knows. No God sees the future real action that shows the real faith.
Now an action maybe just speaking words, it maybe something more physical and time dependent.
But without actions it is just intent. Words sometimes kill, sometimes save lives. They are not passive
necessarily, because they can be linked to others actions and consequences.

Once you remove actions from faith you have dreams alone or just myths, fake delusions, vapour ware.
Who would defend such things except those living in delusion and denied reality and concrete results.
Who would believe God the creator came to bring to His people nothing by myths and fake delusions?

People who do not know Him and have not actually believed Him. So beware where you really are.
Are you actually in action of faith or just the delusion of faith?

WOW, HOW LITTLE DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE NATURE OF GOD.

DO you even know that one of the characteristics of GOD, is HE IS OMNIPRESENT ? ? ?

That is Omnipresent in EVERY SQUARE INCH OF SPACE at the same time, AND OMNIPRESENT in EVERY SECOND OF TIME AS WE KNOW IT AT THE SAME TIME. GOD DOES NOT FIT IN THE BOX WE CALL TIME.

GOD IS NOT A CREATED BEING, TRAVELING THROUGH TIME AS WE KNOW IT. HE IS THE CREATOR OF TIME AS WE KNOW IT.

Ecclesiastes 3:11 (ASV)
11 He hath made everything beautiful in its time: also he hath set eternity in their heart, yet so that man cannot find out the work that God hath done from the beginning even to the end.

Isaiah 46:9-10 (ASV)
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me;
10 declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done; saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure;

Revelation 21:6 (HCSB)
6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give water as a gift to the thirsty from the spring of life.

Sirach 39:20 (NRSV)
20 From the beginning to the end of time he can see everything, and nothing is too marvelous for him.

Jeremiah 29:11 (ESV)
11 For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.

 

[UnderGrace]

Indeed. Unfortunately I cannot recall the exact quote, but one must recognize and accept God's guilty verdict, agree with it, legitimately repent from the heart, receive the only Savior, and then also accept the acquittal in Christ Jesus.

Something like that.....
If anyone can find the quote and attribution please post it....

.......and what is accepting this guilty verdict, it is laying down our "self-righteous works" knowing we can never reach God's standard of perfection.

"Confess" is to agree with God.

"Repent" is a change of mind towards God away from self

"Accept" is paid in full

 

[VCO]

Sorry VCO

I read no WILL in that verse?

Love is not coerced, believers make a choice daily.

John 14:15-16 (ESV)
15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,

 

[Endoscopy]

Again are you stating God does not know those who are His???

We do not need to prove our salvation to God, that seems very silly to me.

Why do you keep trying to put words in my mouth?

 

[dcontroversal]

The ones Jesus said begone to only mentioned works and never faith!!!

We cannot alleviate two facts....

a. They called Jesus Lord twice which indicates a form of belief, but not a faith that saves

b. They believed in their minds the right to enter had much to do with their works in the name of Jesus

We can rightfully conclude that their failure to enter and a denial By Jesus of ever KNOWING THEM goes to the ROOT OF THIER BELIEF SYSTEM.....

Paul was clear....Faith to start and works to finish = a false gospel with no power to save.....this is the SAME DRIVEL PEDDLED by....

a. Any religion that teaches a losable salvation

b. Any religion that blends faith and works for salvation

c. Any religion that blends faith and works to keep or maintain salvation

End of story....absolute truth.....why is it so hard to grasp the truth....works, fruit in a believer can be both good or bad with the ensuing results aimed at REWARD, LOSS OF REWARD OR CHASTISMENT.....with NO EFFECT on salvation which is IRREVOCABLY GIVEN AS AN ETERNAL GIFT AND BASED UPON CHRIST AND HIS WORK, PROMISES AND FAITH!!

 

[dcontroversal]

John 14:15-16 (ESV)
15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,

5083 tēréō (from tēros, "a guard") – properly, maintain (preserve); (figuratively) spiritually guard (watch), keep intact

We cannot forget that Jesus was born, lived and died under the law which ratified the New Covanant.....Under the New, the righteousness of Christ is imputed to our account by faith without the deed/ works of the law and the entire OT system of laws and commands have been reduced unto two and then one by Christ and Paul who was inspired and taught by direct revelation of or from Jesus.....

Love God
Love each other

see 1st Corinthians 13 to see what love does!

 

[Endoscopy]

We cannot alleviate two facts....

a. They called Jesus Lord twice which indicates a form of belief, but not a faith that saves

b. They believed in their minds the right to enter had much to do with their works in the name of Jesus

We can rightfully conclude that their failure to enter and a denial By Jesus of ever KNOWING THEM goes to the ROOT OF THIER BELIEF SYSTEM.....

Paul was clear....Faith to start and works to finish = a false gospel with no power to save.....this is the SAME DRIVEL PEDDLED by....

a. Any religion that teaches a losable salvation

b. Any religion that blends faith and works for salvation

c. Any religion that blends faith and works to keep or maintain salvation

End of story....absolute truth.....why is it so hard to grasp the truth....works, fruit in a believer can be both good or bad with the ensuing results aimed at REWARD, LOSS OF REWARD OR CHASTISMENT.....with NO EFFECT on salvation which is IRREVOCABLY GIVEN AS AN ETERNAL GIFT AND BASED UPON CHRIST AND HIS WORK, PROMISES AND FAITH!!

ROFL
You took my one sentence and expanded it greatly.

 

[dcontroversal]

ROFL
You took my one sentence and expanded it greatly.

I expanded nothing and stated obvious deduced conclusions based upon their own words....and instead of making assumptions and mouthy remarks why not just admit the truth of my post.....for a long time I had you on ignore because of your incessant stand on creeds over the bible and a refusal to acknowledge the truth of what I say....I thought I might give you a second chance.....was it a mistake?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

My Jesus will keep me safe

How dangerous is Jesus? Extremely. Jesus says "You den of vipers, hypocrites, blind teachers."

If I show you Jesus wants to make you slop bucket Holy and pure, yet you deny it can be done,
you have rejected the cross. Without the cross you are dead in your sins, with no hope.

Now let us put this into context. My Jesus would never reject me, I love Him.
Jesus can be just a security blanket, something children use with things get bad.
But Jesus is righteous and Holy, and stands only by the righteous, His Holy people.

If Jesus rejects all who call on His name, and He would never reject you because you love Him,
then why would He reject me? I love Him also. So do many millions of faithful followers round
the world. Why are you special?

His people are special because they have be cleansed, purified and made Holy by the blood of the
Lamb. They walk in His ways, are sensitive to His will and know and share His love.

These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore, "they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them.
Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst. The sun will not beat upon them, nor any scorching heat.
Rev 7:15

They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.
Rev 12:11

Would you shrink from death because of your Lord? Is this you faith or is He just a security
blanket to keep night fears at bay?

Who get thrown into Hell to be tormented eternally? Your neighbour who you say you are
just like, only you have the winning ticket to heaven.

Only a blind fool would believe such a gospel. Unless you are a Holy temple of the living God
where the Holy Spirit dwells, there is no hope. Without the Spirit we have nothing.

The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace;
the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.
Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
Rem 8:6-8

This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
1 Cor 2:13-15

So humble yourself before God, repent of your unbelief and sin, and God will be gracious unto you
and show you the things He has for you and cleanse you in your heart.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

WOW, HOW LITTLE DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE NATURE OF GOD.

DO you even know that one of the characteristics of GOD, is HE IS OMNIPRESENT ? ? ?

That is Omnipresent in EVERY SQUARE INCH OF SPACE at the same time, AND OMNIPRESENT in EVERY SECOND OF TIME AS WE KNOW IT AT THE SAME TIME. GOD DOES NOT FIT IN THE BOX WE CALL TIME.

GOD IS NOT A CREATED BEING, TRAVELING THROUGH TIME AS WE KNOW IT. HE IS THE CREATOR OF TIME AS WE KNOW IT.

Ecclesiastes 3:11 (ASV)
11 He hath made everything beautiful in its time: also he hath set eternity in their heart, yet so that man cannot find out the work that God hath done from the beginning even to the end.

Isaiah 46:9-10 (ASV)
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me;
10 declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done; saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure;

Revelation 21:6 (HCSB)
6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give water as a gift to the thirsty from the spring of life.

Sirach 39:20 (NRSV)
20 From the beginning to the end of time he can see everything, and nothing is too marvelous for him.

Jeremiah 29:11 (ESV)
11 For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.

I made a typo. "No, God sees the future" not "No God sees the future"
Sorry. You are unfortunately quick to judge, lol but I forgive you.
I hope Jesus can see my heart, because if I am judged on punctuation, I am going to have a hard time

 

[Endoscopy]

I expanded nothing and stated obvious deduced conclusions based upon their own words....and instead of making assumptions and mouthy remarks why not just admit the truth of my post.....for a long time I had you on ignore because of your incessant stand on creeds over the bible and a refusal to acknowledge the truth of what I say....I thought I might give you a second chance.....was it a mistake?

Only in your mind you didn't expand it. You love to ignore when and why the creeds were created, 212 to 500 and no printing press. Therefore Bibles were rare and very expensive. This was the case for all written words. Memorization of long passages was common. Since Bibles were very expensive and hard to come by memorization was the norm. The elders created the creeds in order to pass the gospel message.

Why do you constantly give 21st-century abilities to the time up to the printing press. You ignore prior to that scribes were the equivalent of a printing press. Everything copied by hand making it expensive and rare. Why are you so deliberately obtuse?? Are you trying to anger me?? You keep putting 21st-century technology to the early elders. Bible only!! Why??? Explain where any Creed is in error keeping in mind when and why they were created. They define what a Christian must believe!!!! They were and are an evangelism tool! Quit acting like what Jesus rode into Jerusalem on.