Not By Works

[Macabeus]

when you get finished lecturing on command keeping, maybe you could try to pull up some honesty and say that John, in the same letter you quote verbatim , said the commands are to believe in the name of the Son and love one another.

so, to believe and love is to keep the commands. if you care about what John said. all of it, not just your cherry picked talking points.

Stop judging people. Just because they disagree with you doesn't make them dishonest. Stop throwing accusations and names around like a tantrum

 

[gb9]

I never once judged anyone, just talked Bible. You are the one with an untamed tongue calling people names like legalist and such just because they don't agree with your bank exegesis

I never put any time frame, you and DC did. And you use bad exegesis that if applied to the parable of the wheat and tares Jesus' second coming happened seven or eight months after His Ascension

A. Trees take years to bear fruit, so apply the same to believers as trees

B. When takes seven or eight months, so apply that to the wheat and tares parable

Good exegesis, buddy

no one has mentioned time in weeks, except you.

you do understand that every one who come to Christ manifests the same fruit at the same time and way.

some drunks come to Christ, never have another drink. some struggle for years to kick the habit. as long as both believe, both are saved.

you do not see it that way. your denial of that truth makes you a judgemnetal legalist, whether you recognize it or not.

 

[Macabeus]

Are you a farmer?

Do you know about soil?

There is definitely naturally good soil based on the geological history of the land mass......like the Niagara Region naturally fertile soil.

This is basic elementary school science.

I find it funny you are using non scriptural ideas like Pelagianism to understand a parable???

What does the soil represent? A person's receptivity to the Gospel. And is a person NATURALLY receptive to the Gospel, or is there a work of Grace that accompanies the planting of the sees, which is the preaching of the Gospel?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

no one has mentioned time in weeks, except you.

you do understand that every one who come to Christ manifests the same fruit at the same time and way.

some drunks come to Christ, never have another drink. some struggle for years to kick the habit. as long as both believe, both are saved.

you do not see it that way. your denial of that truth makes you a judgemnetal legalist, whether you recognize it or not.

amen

some 30
some 60
some 100

and all the fruit by His power

all equally saved

praise God

 

[Macabeus]

no one has mentioned time in weeks, except you.

you do understand that every one who come to Christ manifests the same fruit at the same time and way.

some drunks come to Christ, never have another drink. some struggle for years to kick the habit. as long as both believe, both are saved.

you do not see it that way. your denial of that truth makes you a judgemnetal legalist, whether you recognize it or not.

My you are a two trick pony

A. Ad hominem

B. Moving the goalpost

What you said has nothing to do with what I said

Oh, and you are turning DC's necessary condition into a contingent possibility again

But I guess you don't know the difference

I don't care about the point really. Just that your argumentation is so bad it's dangerous for you and others

 

[mailmandan]

So if a man with imputed righteousness, lives a sinful life, is he righteous?

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

JPT

Enough with the straw man arguments. Keep reading:

1 John 3:7 - Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

I keep His commandments.

Is that what you are trusting in for salvation? Do you believe that you will receive eternal life based on the merits of your best efforts to keep His commandments (works) or based on faith in Jesus Christ? (Romans 3:22-28; 4:5-6; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9).

To "keep" (Greek word "téreó" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments is descriptive of children of God (demonstrative evidence of having come to know Him - 1 John 2:3) and is the fruit of salvation, but not the root of it.

 

[Macabeus]

amen

some 30
some 60
some 100

and all the fruit by His power

all equally saved

praise God

Not even what I am REFUTING. I am REFUTING the following proposition, and have been the whole time

Here is the statement I disagree with..

"It takes a period of growth and maturity to bear ANYTHING" (ie fruit)

Do you agree with this, that a believer has to grow and mature a bit to bear ANY fruit
My GB9 is moving the goalposts. again. That's ALL he has. That and adhominems

If you doubt anyone said the above quote, ask GB9. He couldn't believe it either till I showed it to him

I don't care about the point anymore, but pointing out bad argumentation. See other posts I posted this morning

 

[gb9]

My you are a two trick pony

A. Ad hominem

B. Moving the goalpost

What you said has nothing to do with what I said

Oh, and you are turning DC's necessary condition into a contingent possibility again

But I guess you don't know the difference

I don't care about the point really. Just that your argumentation is so bad it's dangerous for you and others

so, saying that every person who comes to Christ is not going to do the same things in the same time frame is dangerous.

tell me, why are you so obsessed with time frames and behavior?

a young lady accepted Christ as her Savior this past sun. she stated that she had not worked out all the issues in her life, but was ready to make Christ her Lord.

what is more important ? her coming to Christ or fixing all the issues? does it matter if the issues began to get better now or months from now?
what business of yours is it anyway?

 

[Macabeus]

so, saying that every person who comes to Christ is not going to do the same things in the same time frame is dangerous.

tell me, why are you so obsessed with time frames and behavior?

a young lady accepted Christ as her Savior this past sun. she stated that she had not worked out all the issues in her life, but was ready to make Christ her Lord.

what is more important ? her coming to Christ or fixing all the issues? does it matter if the issues began to get better now or months from now?
what business of yours is it anyway?

No. Agreeing with what DC said and using bad analogies is dangerous. See my last two posts and stop moving the goalpost

 

[gb9]

No. Agreeing with what DC said and using bad analogies is dangerous. See my last two posts and stop moving the goalpost

what goalpost have I moved? I have said the same thing to you for weeks- time frames have no place in a person's relationship with Christ, and it is leglalistic and judgemnetal to say so.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Enough with the straw man arguments. Keep reading:

1 John 3:7 - Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Is that what you are trusting in for salvation? Do you believe that you will receive eternal life based on the merits of your best efforts to keep His commandments (works) or based on faith in Jesus Christ? (Romans 3:22-28; 4:5-6; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9).

To "keep" (Greek word "téreó" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments is descriptive of children of God (demonstrative evidence of having come to know Him - 1 John 2:3) and is the fruit of salvation, but not the root of it.

Hi MMD,,,,

You see, you're idea of a descriptive idea of the gospel actually works to your detriment. (as soteriology, I mean....)
Being rather simple in how I understand the N.T. because I believe it IS to be understood in its whole....I'd never heard of this idea of descriptive and prescriptive.

Here's why Descriptive works to your disadvantage:

As you've stated...to "keep" (Greek word Tereo - guard, observe, watch over) is DESCRIPTIVE of someone who is a follower of Christ.

It is DEMONSTRATIVE evidence of having come to know Him --- 1 John 2.3.
It is the FRUIT of salvation.

I agree.

So, by default, IF someone does not "keep" (guard, OBSERVE, watch over) and does NOT DEMONSTRATE the fruits of salvation, which is the evidence of salavation....
then he must surely not be saved.

I agree.

What are the fruits of the Holy Spirit:
LOVE
JOY
PEACE
PATIENCE
KINDNESS
GOODNESS
FAITHFULNESS
GENTLENESS
SELF-CONTROL

Galatians 5:22-25

So if a person does NOT demonstrate the above qualities which are the fruit of the Spirit and born-again life....he is most probably not a true believer in Jesus.

Thanks for helping me to become aware of this concept.
We have so much to learn in our walk with God.

 

[PennEd]

Did Paul write to the Church, warning them of such individuals?


Writing to someone is not associating with them.



JPT

Nice try. But being here, conversing with people, discussing the Bible, is the OPPOSITE of keeping away. The post was directed specifically at the originator of this thread.

So not only has FollowHisSteps, and anyone else accusing him and others of being these people;
"I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. KEEP AWAY FROM THEM.
For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people."
Rom 16:17-18

But he, and perhaps you, not only refuse to KEEP AWAY FROM THEM, but actually seek them out to cause division and strife. So WHO really does that verse apply to?

 

[GodsGrace101]

Nice try. But being here, conversing with people, discussing the Bible, is the OPPOSITE of keeping away. The post was directed specifically at the originator of this thread.

So not only has FollowHisSteps, and anyone else accusing him and others of being these people;
"I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. KEEP AWAY FROM THEM.
For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people."
Rom 16:17-18

But he, and perhaps you, not only refuse to KEEP AWAY FROM THEM, but actually seek them out to cause division and strife. So WHO really does that verse apply to?

All evil requires to succeed
if for Good to do nothing.

There is a version of the gospel being espoused here that is not in keeping with the nature of Jesus or God or the Holy Spirit. See Galatians 5:22........

Some here are brave enough to accept persecution of God's behalf in order to expose the incorrect doctrine and expose the gospel Jesus died for.

Amen.

 

[Budman]

Some here are brave enough to accept persecution of God's behalf in order to expose the incorrect doctrine and expose the gospel Jesus died for.

Playing the martyr. Quaint.

 

[Budman]

Stop judging people.

He says, as he goes on to judge people.

 

[stonesoffire]

I see so to “keep” His commandments does really mean keep, but “something else”.


If a person keeps Hos commandment to not lie, it means they don’t lie!!!


JPT

An attitude like this does not rely on Holy Spirit for help. It's self help.

 

[stonesoffire]

... If those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker. A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.
Romans 2:26-29

... “As for the person who hears my words but DOES NOT KEEP THEM, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who REJECTS me and DOES NOT ACCEPT MY WORDS; that very word which I spoke WILL CONDEMN HIM AT THE LAST DAY. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me COMMANDED ME WHAT TO SAY and how to say it. I know that HIS COMMAND LEADS TO ETERNAL LIFE. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.” John 12:47-50

...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

It's now clear that what you teach is contrary to the TRUTH.

...The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. FOR OUT OF THE OVERFLOW OF HIS HEART HIS MOUTH SPEAKS. Luke 6:45

This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

Jesus walked this earth completely dependent on Father. So we do too on Holy Spirit which is the Spirit of Father. The reason why Jesus sent Him to us. Without Him, we can do nothing. In the name of Jesus by His Spirit of power.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Some here are brave enough to accept persecution of God's behalf in order to expose the incorrect doctrine and expose the gospel Jesus died for.

Never have I been persecuted like I have been since accepting the true gospel of Jesus Christ....
Even by the ones I grew up with.... I know this place is not my home but I will continue to point to Jesus as the only way until the day I die... because I know Him and He knows me

(not to mention the harassment and lies I have dealt with here...spammed inboxes accusing me wild of outlandish things for me something as little as, saying God does not make people gay.... to me pointing at Jesus as the only way and being accused of blasphemy and called a hacker (still find this one a weird accusation) and many other names....)

but.... I count it a blessing

God has used even harsh times to work patience in me... He can turn coal into diamonds

He is amazing and deserves Glory.... all of it....

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Never have I been persecuted like I have been since accepting the true gospel of Jesus Christ....
Even by the ones I grew up with.... I know this place is not my home but I will continue to point to Jesus as the only way until the day I die... because I know Him and He knows me

(not to mention the harassment and lies I have dealt with here...spammed inboxes accusing me wild of outlandish things for me something as little as, saying God does not make people gay.... to me pointing at Jesus as the only way and being accused of blasphemy and called a hacker (still find this one a weird accusation) and many other names....)

but.... I count it a blessing

God has used even harsh times to work patience in me... He can turn coal into diamonds

He is amazing and deserves Glory.... all of it....

(also not saying my trials hold a candle to my brothers and sisters in many different ages or places.... at least so far in regards to persecution the most extreme ive faced is violent threats and claims like "youre going to hell")

 

[VCO]

This is off subject, I know, but I need to see some greenery and most of you all, after all this SNOW. I used to live about 7 miles from where this scene was FILMED. It was my FAVORITE TRAIL to walk through EVER.

No, not because of Starwars, but ABSOLUTELY HOW it drew me into HOW awesome our CREATOR IS.