Works is where it's at. Works is what it's all about. You have to be crazy not to love works!!
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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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There is a reason God hasn't called us home yet. Because we are here for a purpose. So, yeah, the purpose that God called us unto is a BIG PART of our time here on earth.
No one is elevating works, just disagreeing with people who think that only mature Christians can be used by God.
I see you are a reformed presbyterian Calvinist. Everything I have said is in alignment with Calvinism and reformed doctrine. SO I'll assume you were referring to someone other than me. See my sig below.
if the holy spirit was given to gentiles, who is going to resurrect the jewish given , you read from the same bible he did, and mostly all the writers of the bible are jewish, yet try to exclude acts 15, yet spiritual if you resurrect an understanding by read the bible in your mind, how are you going to exclude god and jesus from not condemning you. judge not or you will be judged,the measure you use will be measured against you.how did you get out of the gosples without understanding what jesus did.
]The fact that all of our sins were in the future at the time of Christ's atonement is totally immaterial.
Our sins were not forgiven at the time of Christ's death. We were not justified when He said, "It is finished."
What was finished was the supreme and eternal and perfect work of Christ in providing the basis for our justification,
"that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus" (Rom. 3:26).
Christ on the cross offered to God a perfect substitute for the penalty which should have been inflicted upon us.
We become partakers of His grace when and only when we savingly believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Justification is judicial forgiveness and takes place the moment we accept God's gracious gift of salvation in Jesus Christ, not at the time Christ died on the cross.
To talk about forgiveness for sins not yet committed is pure foolishness.
Our sins were not remitted at Calvary. They were remitted at conversion.
In his great justification passage in Romans 3, Paul clearly and distinctly states that justification is "for the remission of sins that are past" (v. 25).
Romans 3:25 (KJV)
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;[/QUOTE]
what law did the gentile have. acts 15. what sin are you talking about.
clearly shows you have no idea, what has saved you form your sin
do you want the dates to acts 15
Our sins were not forgiven at the time of Christ's death. We were not justified when He said, "It is finished."
What was finished was the supreme and eternal and perfect work of Christ in providing the basis for our justification,
"that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus" (Rom. 3:26).
Christ on the cross offered to God a perfect substitute for the penalty which should have been inflicted upon us.
We become partakers of His grace when and only when we savingly believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Justification is judicial forgiveness and takes place the moment we accept God's gracious gift of salvation in Jesus Christ, not at the time Christ died on the cross.
To talk about forgiveness for sins not yet committed is pure foolishness.
Our sins were not remitted at Calvary. They were remitted at conversion.
In his great justification passage in Romans 3, Paul clearly and distinctly states that justification is "for the remission of sins that are past" (v. 25).
Romans 3:25 (KJV)
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;[/QUOTE]
what law did the gentile have. acts 15. what sin are you talking about.
clearly shows you have no idea, what has saved you form your sin
do you want the dates to acts 15
Galatians 5:19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who "practice" such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. *These are not believers.
1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God "practices" sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Just because this epistle is addressed to believers does not mean that everyone being discussed in the letter must be a genuine believer. If a Pastor of a church (particularly a very large church) on Sunday morning addresses the congregation with, "good morning brothers and sisters in Christ" and the message is directed at believers, does that mean that EVERYONE who attended church that Sunday morning MUST be a genuine believer? It's not hard to find "nominal" Christians mixed in with the group.
In 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, we see a similar list of sins that were mentioned in Galatians 5:19-21, and Paul goes on to describe such people who practice these sins, in contrast with those who don't. 9 Or do you not know that the UNRIGHTEOUS will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 *Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
*Notice that Paul refers to these people who will not inherit the kingdom of God as the UNRIGHTEOUS, not the righteous. *They were not genuine believers.
what about school teachers, or doctors or professors, who do not believe in god, who educated you, to have a better understanding to basic teaching in history, english, maths , and every subject that has been taught in modern day schools, and university, who taught you beyond the level of understanding to you human parents have. why should people listen to you, if you already know everything,
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
i think you hit on one issue here brother!
it is not my salvation, it is Gods. He drew up the plan of salvation, he drew up the means of which his salvation would be known and forshadowed (the OT) He left his heavenly abode. became man, and purchased it (the cross), and he sends his holy spirit to lead us and draw us to himself. He saves us, He adopts us as children, He perfects us He justified us, He sanctifies us He keeps us, He even chastens us, he leaves the flock to come get us when we wander, He never lets us out of his sight (as the psalmist says, where can I go that you are not there) he died when we were his enemy, He saved us when we were condemned, He hold us in his grace, and he will keep his promise to us, Because it is based on him, not us.
define sin without being able to read.if your dead to sin, spiritual blow air into the dead bones, or dose speaking to them only going to produce a response , that by speaking to them are my actions and how i dress a sin, yet some can not understand, who s action saved you or me from being condemned. are you going to by pass the usage of these two words wrote, god or jesus, what meaning do you use for just these two words, so who do you think saved you,
these two word wrote have caused many wars that are in history books, do you stay dead or do you expect one or the other, to resurrect you (god or jesus)
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
then how we be predestined before time began? (Not calvinist view but the bible states this is a fact)
and if your future sins were not paid, then you can not be saved, because your sins are still left unpaid and you will pay for them with your eternal death.
The probem with legalism is it focuses on self (the sin issue) and not Christ (the faith issue)
The bible does not say he who stops sn and makes themselves righteous is not condemned, but he who sins is condemned already It says he who believes is not condemned, It says he gave the right to those who recieve him to be children of God.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I think one major issue we have is people do not understand what sin is. They think sin is some overt act, like murder or adultry or porn. When in reality, although yes they are sins, they are also the result of sin. I can do a good deed, yet that good deed is done in sin, And according to God that good deed would condemn me, because it is sin
Sin is an attitude, it is the thought I have to look out for self (flesh) in fact the bble says I am a slave to this very thing (slave to sin) because I am seperated from God. and no one else can meet the need left by the alienation but God. I am thus a slave to take care of my own needs, and am on a lifelong journey to find somethign to fill that hole. The things we do to fill that whole (drugs/alcohol. Sexual immorality, Coveting, stealing, Lieing, disrespect, Pride, all all the things we think of as sin, is what is the end result as we seek and do these things in an attempt to fill that need, And since they do not fill that need, or momentarily lessens or medicates us from that need, we need more and more and more (addiction)
Once a believer we are no longer slaves to sin, Becuse God fills that whole. That does not mean we will stop sinning, we will as paul said in rom 7 still struggle We spent a lifetime with these addictions, they do not go away over night, it takes time to trust time to grow in faith and time to mature where we see our sin more, and gods trustworthyness and our utter failure every time we do things on our own. (this is called sanctification) and even this is only by the power of God as we let go of self. and trust him in steps of faith.
Sin is an attitude, it is the thought I have to look out for self (flesh) in fact the bble says I am a slave to this very thing (slave to sin) because I am seperated from God. and no one else can meet the need left by the alienation but God. I am thus a slave to take care of my own needs, and am on a lifelong journey to find somethign to fill that hole. The things we do to fill that whole (drugs/alcohol. Sexual immorality, Coveting, stealing, Lieing, disrespect, Pride, all all the things we think of as sin, is what is the end result as we seek and do these things in an attempt to fill that need, And since they do not fill that need, or momentarily lessens or medicates us from that need, we need more and more and more (addiction)
Once a believer we are no longer slaves to sin, Becuse God fills that whole. That does not mean we will stop sinning, we will as paul said in rom 7 still struggle We spent a lifetime with these addictions, they do not go away over night, it takes time to trust time to grow in faith and time to mature where we see our sin more, and gods trustworthyness and our utter failure every time we do things on our own. (this is called sanctification) and even this is only by the power of God as we let go of self. and trust him in steps of faith.
Some people define sin as an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law. Sin is basically defined as missing the mark.
Ephesians 2:5 - even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
so. you mention years, and it's decon's fault. o.k.
what if your daughter had did a terrible recital? would you have gave her a hug , kind words, and encouragement ? I strongly suspect you would.
why/ because you love your daughter all the time, because she is your daughter .
God loves true believers because we are His children. His love for us is NOT based on what we do, though , one more time, we should be doing good and bearing fruit.
and, I agree God is pleased when we bear good fruit, but, if we have a season when we do not, we are not tossed out.
so, here is another answer. will you accept it?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
fruit inspectors are to busy looking for what fruit others are bearing, when they should be focused instead on how they can serve those people (bear fruit themselves)
We are all going to either die or get raptured and the sins of our flesh will be gone. Sins of the heart like the proud and haughty. Idolatry, blasphemy and rebellion against the almighty I think are a different matter. I think there is a difference between sins of the flesh and abominations.
Proverbs 6 vs 16 - 19 NIV:
16) There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him:
17) haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood,
18) a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil,
19) a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.
Proverbs 6 vs 16 - 19 NIV:
16) There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him:
17) haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood,
18) a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil,
19) a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.
Are you a christian if you have received the Holy Spirit?
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. Heb6:4-6
At the end of the day, if you take an inflexible view either way where osas is concerned you are going to run into trouble with an awful lot of scripture. And you are either going to have to ignore the scripture that does not agree wih your hard and fast view or do sommersaults with it. So is there another way? A way where we do not have to do that, and are we prepared or willing to do that?
If a person makes a commitment to Christ, but have not counted the cost in doing so(Luke ch14)They make a shallow commitment to God's son, will God there and then place them in a saved state? Will he take them at their word? Though God, who is all knowing knows it is not a commitment that will last. You can obviously say he will not, but then you are left with having scripture that will oppose your view.
BTW
I really do not like it when you and I disagree, You write some really good posts
God bless
Yep, Jesus died for all a believers sins, past, present and future, but there is a proviso according to Paul, do you know what it is?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Honestly, who comes up thinking people believe this way? Is it because they cant find any real issue so they make things up?
who am i , to tell god or jesus, what rite, he has to save anyone,
42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. acts 10
he also has the rite to condemn , this is the reason the world never stopped , after the resurrection, so you have the rite to believe or reject a belief
we are all still children in god eyes,no matter what age you are, even if we know the bible inside out. can you speak every language of ever human on the planet. just point to the grave and then to the sky, and say he went that way. so why do i need a voice and a body, if i just need a finger, you could write that on a sign post, so why do i need a bible , if you think i never read it. yet could not understand the sign post jesus left you.
Absolutely. (Acts 11:17; Romans 8:9-10; Ephesians 1:13).
It amazes how cynics are always looking for a way to disprove eternal security of the believer. I've heard three different interpretations for Hebrews 6:4-6. These Hebrews who fell away were never truly saved to begin with, hypothetical view, loss of salvation view. The loss of salvation view is inconclusive.
Show me one verse in the Bible that specifically says a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation." I got off that roller coaster ride of fear and bondage to insecurity upon my conversion after leaving the RCC. Is a shallow commitment a true commitment? It wasn't for Judas Iscariot (who was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus - John 6:64-71; 13:10-11) or these so called disciples who left Jesus and walked with Him no more in John 6:64-66.
God does not forsake His saints/they are preserved forever (Psalm 37:28); Jesus' sheep will never perish or be snatched from His hand (John 10:27-29); Believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30); Those He justified, He also glorified (Romans 8:30); He who has begun a good work in us will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:6) etc..
