Actually you come against the Spirit because it is who you are and you have no argument against it.
So you belittle and defame.
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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So you belittle and defame.
Budman, post: 3845359, member: 190749"]Will we do good works against our will?[/QUOTE]
No. Why? Do you think we believe against our will?
No. Why? Do you think we believe against our will?
Confession restores fellowship not salvation. Only one new birth, though we have to get realigned at times.
If a person would CLAIM to believe yet would not repent, confess, obey and suffer for the sake of Christ, will he be saved and always saved?
...Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you. This is a sign to them that they will be destroyed, but that YOU WILL BE SAVED—and that by God. For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also TO SUFFER FOR HIM, since you are going through the same struggle you saw I had, and now hear that I still have. Philippians 1:27-30
Suffering for Being a Christian ...Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you PARTICIPATE IN THE SUFFERINGS OF CHRIST, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. If you are INSULTED because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF GOD? And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?” So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and CONTINUE TO DO GOOD. 1 Peter 4:12-19
...and, “A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.” THEY STUMBLE BECAUSE THEY DISOBEY THE MESSAGE—which is also what they were destined for. But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. To this you were called, BECAUSE CHRIST SUFFERED FOR YOU, LEAVING YOU AN EXAMPLE THAT YOU SHOULD FOLLOW IN HIS STEPS. 1 Peter 2:8,20-21
Did Jesus left us an example to follow? And what did we benefit from it?
If by His OBEDIENCE to God He became the source of eternal salvation for those who obey Him, Aren't we supposed to OBEY him if we really believe that He is our source of ETERNAL SALVATION?
....During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, HE LEARNED OBEDIENCE FROM WHAT HE SUFFERED and, once made perfect, he became THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM. Hebrews 5:7-9
What did Jesus instruct His disciples before He went back to the Father?
...teaching them to obey whatever I have commanded you...Matthew 28:18-20
And what did the disobedient do according to Isaiah?
...for they have REJECTED THE LAW of the Lord Almighty and SPURNED THE WORD of the Holy One of Israel. Isaiah 5:20-24
And Paul who was the apostle to the Gentiles gave them this warning...
...LET NO ONE DECEIVE YOU with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6'7
Now who are THE LIARS that are deceiving you?
...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6
And John reiterated in 2 john 1:6-11
...AND THIS IS LOVE: THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. Many DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. ANY SUCH PERSON IS THE DECEIVER AND THE ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work. (see also john 14:21-24 and matthew 19:16-30 about Jesus teachings)
As Jesus, Paul and the other apostles and disciples did warn us too.
...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED. For FALSE CHRISTS and FALSE PROPHETS will appear and perform great signs and miracles to DECEIVE even the elect—if that were possible. Matthew 24:10-13,24
...For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, WHO CHANGE THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and DENY JESUS CHRIST our only Sovereign and Lord. These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “IN THE LAST TIMES there will be SCOFFERS who will follow their own ungodly desires.” THESE ARE THE MEN WHO DIVIDE YOU, who follow mere natural instincts and DO NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT. Jude 1:4,16-19
Are there people on this thread WHO DIVIDE YOU by teaching that OBEDIENCE TO GOD'S COMMANDS HAVE NO BEARING IN SALVATION?
Don't they reject Jesus teaching that those who will stand firm to the end ( overcomers) WILL BE SAVED which is contrary to OSAS?
Do they not refuse His warnings about deceivers or FALSE CHRISTS, PROPHETS AND TEACHERS who will appear in the last days when many will ABANDON/TURN AWAY from the FAITH?
...See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? Hebrews 12:25
...But I am afraid that just as Eve was DECEIVED by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be LED ASTRAY from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
...DO NOT BE DECEIVED: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Galatians 6:7
...Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you. This is a sign to them that they will be destroyed, but that YOU WILL BE SAVED—and that by God. For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also TO SUFFER FOR HIM, since you are going through the same struggle you saw I had, and now hear that I still have. Philippians 1:27-30
Suffering for Being a Christian ...Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you PARTICIPATE IN THE SUFFERINGS OF CHRIST, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. If you are INSULTED because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF GOD? And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?” So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and CONTINUE TO DO GOOD. 1 Peter 4:12-19
...and, “A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.” THEY STUMBLE BECAUSE THEY DISOBEY THE MESSAGE—which is also what they were destined for. But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. To this you were called, BECAUSE CHRIST SUFFERED FOR YOU, LEAVING YOU AN EXAMPLE THAT YOU SHOULD FOLLOW IN HIS STEPS. 1 Peter 2:8,20-21
Did Jesus left us an example to follow? And what did we benefit from it?
If by His OBEDIENCE to God He became the source of eternal salvation for those who obey Him, Aren't we supposed to OBEY him if we really believe that He is our source of ETERNAL SALVATION?
....During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, HE LEARNED OBEDIENCE FROM WHAT HE SUFFERED and, once made perfect, he became THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM. Hebrews 5:7-9
What did Jesus instruct His disciples before He went back to the Father?
...teaching them to obey whatever I have commanded you...Matthew 28:18-20
And what did the disobedient do according to Isaiah?
...for they have REJECTED THE LAW of the Lord Almighty and SPURNED THE WORD of the Holy One of Israel. Isaiah 5:20-24
And Paul who was the apostle to the Gentiles gave them this warning...
...LET NO ONE DECEIVE YOU with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6'7
Now who are THE LIARS that are deceiving you?
...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6
And John reiterated in 2 john 1:6-11
...AND THIS IS LOVE: THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. Many DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. ANY SUCH PERSON IS THE DECEIVER AND THE ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work. (see also john 14:21-24 and matthew 19:16-30 about Jesus teachings)
As Jesus, Paul and the other apostles and disciples did warn us too.
...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED. For FALSE CHRISTS and FALSE PROPHETS will appear and perform great signs and miracles to DECEIVE even the elect—if that were possible. Matthew 24:10-13,24
...For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, WHO CHANGE THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and DENY JESUS CHRIST our only Sovereign and Lord. These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “IN THE LAST TIMES there will be SCOFFERS who will follow their own ungodly desires.” THESE ARE THE MEN WHO DIVIDE YOU, who follow mere natural instincts and DO NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT. Jude 1:4,16-19
Are there people on this thread WHO DIVIDE YOU by teaching that OBEDIENCE TO GOD'S COMMANDS HAVE NO BEARING IN SALVATION?
Don't they reject Jesus teaching that those who will stand firm to the end ( overcomers) WILL BE SAVED which is contrary to OSAS?
Do they not refuse His warnings about deceivers or FALSE CHRISTS, PROPHETS AND TEACHERS who will appear in the last days when many will ABANDON/TURN AWAY from the FAITH?
...See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? Hebrews 12:25
...But I am afraid that just as Eve was DECEIVED by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be LED ASTRAY from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
...DO NOT BE DECEIVED: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Galatians 6:7
Very good. When I first answered his post, I misread it and thought he was asking for scriptures that faith was a gift, I had been arguing for both as gifts.
I used the phil. 2 one later, but the Phil. 2 is spot on.
A few questions you need to be clear first
How is one a sinner? Is it because of his sin?
How does one get saved? Is it because of his obedience?
Clue is in Romans 5:12-19
The hinge upon which the whole things turns is that John said "by this we know that we have known Him, if we keep His commandments". And by this we know we have passed from death unto life because we love the brethren, and again, He who lives is born of God, and knows God, and whoever believes (present tense) is born of God (perfect, completed action in past time with continuing results), and the went out from us because they were not all of us.
There is a security doctrine that accepts all of these and takes them into account. It is perserverance of the saints, ie the saints perserverance is due to the continuing ministry of Advocate Jesus and Advocate Holy Spirit. The easy believism doctrine makes your perserverance based on some momentary belief you had that may or may not be temporary
It's funny one person says that their definition of faith is not mere intellectual assent, that no one says that, and then someone else comes along and says faith is a mental activity. I'm not saying the second person is easy believism, but it is ironic that someone can claim that no one teaches such a thing, and then someone comes along and proves he's mistaken
This is why I prefer the term "perserverance of the saints". Because perserverance is based on God keeping us, and OSAS seems to be often the position that even momentary faith that passes like a vapor punches the ticket and ensures heaven.
This is why I prefer the term "perserverance of the saints". Because perserverance is based on God keeping us, and OSAS seems to be often the position that even momentary faith that passes like a vapor punches the ticket and ensures heaven. Saving faith does is not temporary
I meant to say the Phil 1 was spot on. I missed that one. Both make the point.
In Adam, sin imputed.
In Christ, righteousness imputed
How does one get from "in Adam" to "in Christ"? And what effects do being in Christ have upon believers? Is it imputation of righteousness ONLY, or does Christ's work bear other fruits in the believers life as well?
Does anyone else have this in their lower right hand corner? Once again, it's another annoying pop up that I don't want.. 
Amen! In context, we see that Jesus is directing this parable to the Pharisees and scribes who complained, saying that Jesus receives sinners and eats with them, while failing to recognize because of pride and self righteousness that they were sinners themselves. The main point of this parable is not that a believer lost their salvation and had to regain it back again, but the absolute importance of finding the one lost sheep -- there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
So JPT can try all he wants to make this parable teach that this one "sheep" in this case was a saved person who lost their salvation and had to get saved all over again, but to no avail. JPT conveniently forgets what Jesus said in Matthew 5:5 - These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
In Luke 19:10, we read - For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”
*Not lost his salvation and has to get it back again.
Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you "have been" (past tense with ongoing present results) saved through faith.. *We truly have been saved from the penalty of sin through faith and are in a saved condition while alive on this earth and we can KNOW that we have eternal life (1 John 5:13). Praise God!
John 5:24 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
From from to back this post reeks with ignorance.......Go back to the chalk board and pay attention to the INSPIRED WORD that STATES CLEARLY that we HAVE SALVATION RIGHT NOW as an IMMEDIATE POSSESSION.....WOW.....
I responded....not sure why.....the whole post should be put in the dictionary next to the word ignorance as an example
By faith.....
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE
Does anyone else have this in their lower right hand corner? Once again, it's another annoying pop up that I don't want..
View attachment 194084
I have not seen it yet.......who knows though.....morning Blue
