Not By Works

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GodsGrace101 said:
What do you mean IT'S A MARATHON?????
:eek:

I thought we got saved once and for all, no matter what, a past action that's ongoing (or something or other - which I never read in the bible BTW)

wow.
YOU are really encouraging!
Keep up the good work.
:rolleyes:
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Fran......you should really, honestly study Salvation and justification from the bible while paying attention to the Greek Verb Tenses used....Salvation is spoken of in all three tenses and they all point to one who was saved, is saved and continuing to be saved.....not because of what we do, but because of what Christ has done and does on our behalf.......it is ALL his work........

The Perfect Tense Greek verb indicates ongoing result. If you remember that the meaning of the word perfect is complete, then you can remember that the perfect tense has to do with completed action. But the perfect tense is a primary tense because it emphasizes the present, or ongoing result of a completed action.
 
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mailmandan said:
Those who trust in works for salvation often confuse ongoing sanctification (which involves our daily walk in our Christian life and growth towards maturity in Christ) with justification (having been justified/saved through faith). When justification gets confused with ongoing sanctification the end result is "performance based works salvation."

There are 3 tenses to salvation that often get confused by works-salvationists:

1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification)
2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification)
3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)
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AMEN.....................fully agree.......100%
 
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dcontroversal said:
Fran......you should really, honestly study Salvation and justification from the bible while paying attention to the Greek Verb Tenses used....Salvation is spoken of in all three tenses and they all point to one who was saved, is saved and continuing to be saved.....not because of what we do, but because of what Christ has done and does on our behalf.......it is ALL his work........

The Perfect Tense Greek verb indicates ongoing result. If you remember that the meaning of the word perfect is complete, then you can remember that the perfect tense has to do with completed action. But the perfect tense is a primary tense because it emphasizes the present, or ongoing result of a completed action.
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Many of us do not know greek , yet we understand clearly By grace we are saved through faith ...xox...
 
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mailmandan said:
I have often heard works-salvationists cite John 3:36 in the NAS translation of the Bible and stress the word "obey" the Son, then write a blank check with the word "obey" and fill out whatever amount of works they feel are necessary to be saved (water baptism, partaking of the Lord's Supper during Mass, obeying the commandments, performing works of charity etc..) and call that believing in the Son, yet they are actually believing in their works and not IN THE SON.

In regards to "does not obey the Son" in the New American Standard translation of the Bible, this does not mean that receiving eternal life is received based on the merits of our obedience/works which follows believing in the Son, but obey by choosing to believe in the Son. If John wanted to make "obedience" the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. *To obey the Son here is to choose to believe in the Son.

The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says "rejects the Son" and the CSB says, "refuses to believe in the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely."

*In the context of 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to reject the Son by refusing to believe in the Son.
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AMEN....IF you do not believe that I AM HE, YOU WILL die in your sins................HE that BELIEVES on the SON is having everlasting life......
 
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UnderGrace said:
.....And another thing, if a person thinks obedience (i.e. behaviour modification, good works, law keeping) is going to save them they have yet to enter through the narrow gate
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What astounds me is the simple fact that those which peddle a losable salvation that must be kept by works peddle the exact same thing that the "plenteous in number" teach and believe.....they all.....

a. Name Jesus as Lord <--supposed faith
b. Fully believe their works has a part to play in securing entrance into the Kingdom<--Have we not done

I stand amazed that they cannot see that they are who JESUS is talking about....MOST that nae Christ believe in some salvation that must be earned or maintained by works and it is LOSABLE if they do not DO or sin......
 
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GodsGrace101 said:
So you don't agree with Romans 10:10?
Romans 10:10
10For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

must go.
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Of course I believe Romans 10:10.......

dcontroversal said:
Wrong........the demons did not have saving faith...and James is addressing a mere belief in GOD, not believing and trusting into Christ as our savior....and the heart is the seat of intellect.....the organ that pumps blood has no cognitive ability....we make decisions with our MIND................


kardia: heart
Original Word: καρδία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: kardia
Phonetic Spelling: (kar-dee'-ah)
Definition: heart
Usage: lit: the heart; mind, character, inner self, will, intention, center.
 
GodsGrace101 said:



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Disgusting. Isnt Reinhard bonkers one of benny hinn's minions?
 
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UnderGrace said:
Yes, they have done some things together.

Benny Hinn....now there is someone to watch out for, from Canada, I know people went to high school with him.

His own son has exposed him
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One of the funniest things I have ever seen....Someone replaced his jacket with a light saber in the video of him bowling people over left and right with his jacket......I laughed my head off HAHAHA was hilariously sad....funny as, but sad that people believe that crap...
 
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I want everyone to look carefully here:

Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Its either or. Works or grace
So which one do you choose?

How do you explain those verses @GodsGrace101 ?
 
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Hevosmies said:
I want everyone to look carefully here:

Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Its either or. Works or grace
So which one do you choose?

How do you explain those verses @GodsGrace101 ?
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Oh I and others have already presented those verses ....she will find away.

It is quite an art actually
 
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UnderGrace said:
Oh I and others have already presented those verses ....she will find away.

It is quite an art actually
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sorry. i havent been reading that far back i guess, or have forgotten godsgrace's responses. I hope to get another one.

Its 4000 pages so, who can blame me for not reading through it :D
 
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