Not By Works

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dcontroversal said:
Sure.....

He believed God and it was put to his account for righteousness........Romans 4
Click to expand...
In Genesis 12:1 God tells Abram what he's to do....leave his country. God explains to him how and why.

In Genesis 12:4 Abram obeyed God.

God speaks.
We obey.

Do we believe because we obey...
Or do we obey because we believe?
 
GodsGrace101 said:
Thanks for answering.
I don't ask "loaded" questions...I'm just trying to get to the root of ideas.

You see D, it's all wording.
You say Jesus volunteered to die.
I say He HAD to die.
Which is it?
Could Jesus have said no?
Didn't God make the 2nd person of the Trinity be born so that He could go to the cross so mankind could be freed from the sin problem?

This is the same as saying we obey because we love...
and we must obey. Same thing.

Anyway, yes, all you say is true.
You left out to open heaven's gates to us who had been denied entry in the O.T. times.

See my post no. 81,887.
Click to expand...

If it be possible let this cup pass from me.....NOT what I will, but what YOU WILL.........

And I left out nothing....--->hence the all inclusive and or exclusive statement.....
 
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GodsGrace101 said:
In Genesis 12:1 God tells Abram what he's to do....leave his country. God explains to him how and why.

In Genesis 12:4 Abram obeyed God.

God speaks.
We obey.

Do we believe because we obey...
Or do we obey because we believe?
Click to expand...

Does not matter....the bible states clearly HE BELIEVED and it was put to his account for righteousness.......end of story!
 
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GodsGrace101 said:
I asked first!


This dumb question is asked often:
How do you know you have enough works...

See...
It's as DUMB as asking how do you know you have enough faith.
Click to expand...

bill's question was not dumb.

neither was mine.

you say that we are saved by grace, then maintained by works.

o.k., if that is true, then what is the formula?

if I am to maintain my salvation by works/obedience then how many I am to do? how much disobedience will disqualify me?

I mean, if this is true, then there has to be a consistency , because God is no respecter of persons.

if your theology cannot answer questions , then it is not real theology. it's just an opinion.
 
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dcontroversal said:
He said "LIKE A".....NOT "IS"...........and again....conflating ideas = false gospel...his address is a MERE belief in GOD...not saving faith!!

Wake up Fran to the truth and be set free from your legalism.....

Therefore, we conclude that a MAN is justified by FAITH without the deeds/works of the law.
Click to expand...
Where does it say "like a" ???

Please use scripture!


Here's what I posted,
James 2:17
Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
 
gb9 said:
bill's question was not dumb.

neither was mine.

you say that we are saved by grace, then maintained by works.

o.k., if that is true, then what is the formula?

if I am to maintain my salvation by works/obedience then how many I am to do? how much disobedience will disqualify me?

I mean, if this is true, then there has to be a consistency , because God is no respecter of persons.

if your theology cannot answer questions , then it is not real theology. it's just an opinion.
Click to expand...

It will never be a maintained salvation by our works...the reason being......

a. Salvation would be a debt owed for service
b. Man can glory and say, I HELPED or I DONE.....
c. It is all JESUS or it is fraudulent

End of story
 
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dcontroversal said:
Does not matter....the bible states clearly HE BELIEVED and it was put to his account for righteousness.......end of story!
Click to expand...

Abraham is one of many examples of grace-faith-works.

God spoke to Abram. ( grace ) . Abram believed God. ( faith) Abram went where he was told. ( works).


this same thing plays out over and over in the Bible. because it is the way. the only way, in that order. Grace-faith-works.
 
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dcontroversal said:
It will never be a maintained salvation by our works...the reason being......

a. Salvation would be a debt owed for service
b. Man can glory and say, I HELPED or I DONE.....
c. It is all JESUS or it is fraudulent

End of story
Click to expand...

Dcon....wow you are tenacious.....Love it ....... but really we have been here before, there is nothing any of else can say....imho
 
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GodsGrace101 said:
Where does it say "like a" ???

Please use scripture!


Here's what I posted,
James 2:17
Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
Click to expand...

The comparison is made between a MERE belief in GOD and a corpse......and again you cannot grasp the truth that JAMES is addressing a MERE BELIEF IN GOD WHICH the JEWS had, and to THIS DAY HAVE....they BELIEVE in GOD, but have NO SAVING FAITH.....this is what YOU cannot grasp because your religion has led you into this false belief that YOU, through works, must MAINTAIN that which is already ETERNALLY given dia faith......

nekros: dead
Original Word: νεκρός, ά, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: nekros
Phonetic Spelling: (nek-ros')
Definition: dead
Usage: (a) adj: dead, lifeless, subject to death, mortal, (b) noun: a dead body, a corpse.
 
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mailmandan said:
Amen! In this context, "dead faith" which remains alone - "barren of works" cannot save you because it is an empty profession of faith (James 2:14) and not authentic faith which results in evidential works.
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It is authentic faith :D just sayin

It is faith that is not being demonstrated to the world.
 
GodsGrace101 said:
JAMES SAID:

Faith WITHOUT WORKS is dead.
James 2:17

WHY?
Because it is BY ITSELF.

It is of NO VALUE...
FAith, by ITSELF, is valueless.

It helps NO ONE.

Not you
and not those around you.

IT IS DEAD.



UFFA.
Click to expand...


You are absolutely correct here.

James defines this dead faith as a faith that is "by itself" without works.

This is an inoperative faith, many lexicons give the correct understanding of "dead" in context of James and in context of other writers at the time.

What is dead was once alive, anyone who argues this is against sheer logic and reality
 
UnderGrace said:
Dcon....wow you are tenacious.....Love it ....... but really we have been here before, there is nothing any of else can say....imho
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Well, I cannot stand false gospels and will hammer away until.....

a. The cows come home
b. The chickens roost
c. The sun, moon and stars quit shining
d. Hell freezes over and the gates of hell are welded shut
e. Or the Lord decides my time is up

Until then.....Biblical salvation is by grace through faith with nothing, zero, nadda, nil, zilch attached to gain eternal life in Christ.......
 
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dcontroversal said:
Well, I cannot stand false gospels and will hammer away until.....

a. The cows come home
b. The chickens roost
c. The sun, moon and stars quit shining
d. Hell freezes over and the gates of hell are welded shut
e. Or the Lord decides my time is up

Until then.....Biblical salvation is by grace through faith with nothing, zero, nadda, nil, zilch attached to gain eternal life in Christ.......
Click to expand...

Excellent, I will keeping cheering you on!!!
 
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UnderGrace said:
You are absolutely correct here.

James defines this dead faith as a faith that is "by itself" without works.

This is an inoperative faith, many lexicons give the correct understanding of "dead" in context of James and in context of other writers at the time.

What is dead was once alive, anyone who argues this is against sheer logic and reality
Click to expand...

Come on sis

I was born spirituall dead, i was never spiritually alive, so this line of reasoning is not accurate and to say it is against logic and reality just makes the argument look bad.
 
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dcontroversal said:
Does not matter....the bible states clearly HE BELIEVED and it was put to his account for righteousness.......end of story!
Click to expand...


So by the same reasoning we can say those who believe... for a while were saved the moment they believe.


Then later when persecution came, they no longer believed, are therefore were no longer saved.


End of story.



Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


  • lest they should believe and be saved.

Believe = Saved


  • who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Believe for a while = Saved for a while






JPT
 
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