Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

Those that read the N.T. and actually understand it will know who is teaching the false gospel.
There is only ONE GOSPEL.
Better to get to know it.

Yep and you ain't it Fran and your gospel reeks of the many that will find out the hard way.......!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes. I am so dense.
Could you please give us the post number please?
Thanks.

BTW, if YOU can't explain rightly dividing the word of truth...
I will.

HHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH she has jokes.....you could not divide a ham sandwich must less the truth with your I keep myself saved drivel....

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes,
BUT
You NEVER explain what deeds of the Law are.

It's obvious you don't know or you'd explain it.
If you don't know what it means, maybe you could stop talking about it?

Deeds of the Law:
Works we do to try and gain God's approval but we lack the faith required to please God.
Without faith NO ONE can please God.
IF we have faith in God, the He DOES approve of our works...they are no longer done UNDER THE LAW but under grace.

We are God's hands and feet and He does require us to carry on His work here on earth.
He's not coming down here to feed the poor and clothe the naked and feed the hungry.
WE are supposed to do whatever it is God wants us to do.

Deeds of the Law are RIGHTEOUS works
Deeds of Grace are deeds God is happy about.

I can just as easily say that you don't know as well.......Galatians condemns your heretical I keep myself saved rigmarole.....I guess your JESUS is too weak and inept to actually save you.......right?

 

[dcontroversal]

Didn't Able offer the "work of his hands"?
What's the difference?

No, he offered blood in faith....something you know nothing about......

 

[cv5]

I have a thread called THIRD TEMPLE NEWS, I have all kinds of videos posted there. You should check it out. Most of the pages were from the Original Christian Chat, and they has Errors in Converting them, such as:

Matthew 24:2 (ESV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”

See the [SUP] just before and after the verse number, they were added during the conversion process. STRANGE ISN'T IT?


I had some of the some of the Videos by the LATEST Archaeologist Team, one of the was Jewish, actually Disappear after the Israeli Government Started investigating the dig at the site in the City of David. That Archaeologist Team, say it proved the Temple was in the City of David, and the Wall where the Jews Prayed was the Western Wall of Ft. Antonia. I suspect the Disappearance was a cover up by the ISRAELI Government, and now all you get when you click on those Videos is this WARNING:
Video unavailable
This video is no longer available because the YouTube account associated with this video has been terminated.

I am highly suspicious, because this PROOF, would cause a MAJOR Disturbance in Israel. How do you tell the People that THEY have been praying at the WALL to Ft. Antonia for CENTURIES? I found Lots of opposition even among Christian here that did not agree with the Archaeologist's discoveries.

Here is a link to my Thread that was started Jul 17, 2017:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/third-temple-news.155526/

the Wall where the Jews Prayed was the Western Wall of Ft. Antonia

Undoubtedly. BTW Ft. Antonia was typical in construction and was about 30 acres as most were. Huge.
Most illustrators and historians show a diminutive group of towers. Useless and incorrect.

 

[Hevosmies]

What about Judas?

Was HE ever saved and then became lost?
Jesus chose a LOST PERSON (a goat) to be one of the Apostles?
AND, made him the treasurer?


I'm afraid you're going to have to believe all I say like you promised to.

Adam wasnt saved nor lost, he wasnt created lost. And he didnt need to be saved UNTIL sin. But thats irrelevant lets focus on Judas now:


YES Jesus chose a goat (a lost person). He says it right there: I've chosen you and ONE OF YOU is a devil. So Jesus knew exactly what was going on. THE SCRIPTURES needed to be fulfilled that He would be betrayed for silver coisn which is why Judas was "in charge" of that task.

John 6:64
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

 

[Sketch]

Could you please explain to us what WORKS means?
I'm sure you've studied Paul, the O.T. and what Paul means by works.
Thanks.

"Works" is the plural form of the word "work".

 

[TruthTalk]

Hi bro,

Yes discipleship is formal and informal.

Of course I can answer your question.

Basically it boils down to

Romans 5:20 - 6:3
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Dead to Sin, Alive to God
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

So what I'm talking about here is a person who uses Gods grace to sin.

The reason I say this is because I had a close friend who was sleeping with his girlfriend. I was in the room above and I heard it all.
I was perplexed because to be honest I could not understand it.
As a believer who was messed up I did have sex before marriage.
When I did I was so wracked with guilt and was very heavy in my heart.

I asked him if he felt guilty. He said "No because God knows we are going to do it so it's already forgiven. No guilt at all.

Using grace to sin.

So what I'm trying to say is given my friend who is a believer and I quote the above verses and he turned around and says "I don't give two hoots I can do what I want and go to heaven"

Then I will question their belief in Jesus, hence their salvation.

I deliberately quoted verse 3 above 'Baptised"

I have the pleasure of baptising people.
Every person who I baptise I ask them following when they come to see me.

Romans 10:9
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Have you confessed with your mouth and believed he was raised from the dead.

I had to reject to baptising someone because they could not do that.
I asked them if they would do it and they said no.

So to me to disciple correctly is to use the word of God.
If they reject it then do they not reject Jesus as Lord and Saviour?

I'm not talking about works here.
We all know sanctification is a process and a walk.
For some its hard and for others it's easy.
The refiner in our lives will refine us and we will always seek that, even if at times we do not.

But a genuine beliver will never be happy when they have gone astray.

Those who have not made Jesus Lord will not give two hoots because they have no desire to walk on the level path God had called them walk on with him.

Does the above make sense?

Hi BillG, and thank you makes a lot of sense, and I have said before on this forum that when you are a true believer any sin is horrible and needs to be confessed.

 

[TruthTalk]

The exact opposite of what you think is the path and exactly why those that blend faith and works for will not make the cut....at the end of the day you do not trust JESUS, but rather yourself.......!!

Thank you decon. It is sad that the people continue to hear from fran and her self-righteous works plus faith gospel and who has lied and deceived this forum.

 

[Argueless]

Adam wasnt saved nor lost, he wasnt created lost. And he didnt need to be saved UNTIL sin. But thats irrelevant lets focus on Judas now:


YES Jesus chose a goat (a lost person). He says it right there: I've chosen you and ONE OF YOU is a devil. So Jesus knew exactly what was going on. THE SCRIPTURES needed to be fulfilled that He would be betrayed for silver coisn which is why Judas was "in charge" of that task.

John 6:64
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

...Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. Romans 14:4

...What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.” But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and AS SOME CLAIM THAT WE SAY—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is deserved. Romans 3:3-8

Did the apostles say “Let us do evil that good may result”? No.

BUT some on this thread are proud to call themselves "SINNERS" and say that obedience to God has no bearing unto salvation while mocking and insulting those who say otherwise, calling them "SINLESS PERFECTIONISTS", "WORKS SALVATIONISTS", "CAINOLOGISTS" and "PEDDLERS OF A FALSE GOSPEL" thus calling EVIL GOOD AND GOOD EVIL. (Isaiah 5:20-24)

...But God is faithful to His promises to His own people where Judas was one of them and was even chosen to be one of the twelve apostles who are servants of God.

...the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and THE PROMISES. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. Romans 9:4-5 (See also Romans 11:11-36)

Apostles of Christ
...So then, men ought to regard us as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the secret things of God. Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not? 1 Corinthians 4:1-7

 

[justpassinthrough]

Ephesians 1:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

This scripture says the moment you heard the Gospel and believe in your heart you are saved and sealed by the holy spirit.

So is a person who believes for a while, then no longer believes, saved for a while?



JLB

 

[justpassinthrough]

John 6:70
Then Jesus said, "I chose the twelve of you, 'but one is a devil."

Hi Hevosmies, I agree Judas was not saved. Past arguments have said that Judas was saved because he demonstrated remorse when he hung himself. That's an excuse and not provable because you cannot question the guilty party. Most believe Judas was a devil 'from the beginning' and so did Jesus.

John 6:64
"But there are some of you 'who do not believe.” For 'Jesus knew from the beginning' who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.

Go tell your story to our Savior, that Judas lost his salvation. The bible does not say Judas was ever saved it say's he was a devil "from the beginning", period.

If Judas Iscariot sympathizer's were totally honest they would admit that they are trying to twist scripture in this case to prove eternal salvation can be lost by using Judas as an example, to their own shame. Jesus "Knew from the beginning", Judas was a fake disciple and his motive was the money.

​

So someone who hears his Voice and follows Him for three years as a disciple, then is promoted to an Apostle, then empowered and sent out to preach the Gospel to the lost, raise the dead, heal the sick and cast out devils, was never saved?


What must a person then do to be saved?




JLB

 

[stonesoffire]

1. Why did Judas take his own life out of desperation?

2. See Mathew 26:22 Who said Judas never called Jesus Lord??
22Being deeply grieved, they each one began to say to Him, “Surely not I, Lord?”

I just read this, this afternoon.

22 Feeling deeply distressed, each one began to ask him, "Surely I am not the one, Lord?"

23 He replied, "The man who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me.

24 The Son of Man is going away, just as it has been written about him. How terrible it will be for that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for him if he had never been born."

25 Then Judas, who was going to betray him, asked, "Rabbi, I'm not the one, am I?" Jesus told him, "You have said so."

 

[stonesoffire]

Maybe Dcon could explain it to you ....
You seem to trust him more than you trust me.

Then you haven't read the thread "praying in tongues" have you?

I do appreciate his wisdom concerning this thread though.

 

[mailmandan]

You should be careful, even in the very OT passage-she quoted, it says our righteous DEEDS are as filthy rags.

Righteous deeds (plural) is not our righteounsness (singular) as she is trying to say, is interpreted as good deeds or good works. Ie,our righteous works are as filthy rags

Paul used the same term in Titus 3 when he said not by works of righteousness (ie righteous deeds) which we have done, ut by his mercy, he saved us.

She is wrong in this manner.

Amen! Titus 3:5 clearly states that it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, (Literally, "of works which are done in righteousness") and this passage fully refutes the doctrine of meritorious works (plural).

 

[Tim416]

Yes,
BUT
You NEVER explain what deeds of the Law are.

It's obvious you don't know or you'd explain it.
If you don't know what it means, maybe you could stop talking about it?

Deeds of the Law:
Works we do to try and gain God's approval but we lack the faith required to please God.
Without faith NO ONE can please God.
IF we have faith in God, the He DOES approve of our works...they are no longer done UNDER THE LAW but under grace.

We are God's hands and feet and He does require us to carry on His work here on earth.
He's not coming down here to feed the poor and clothe the naked and feed the hungry.
WE are supposed to do whatever it is God wants us to do.

Deeds of the Law are RIGHTEOUS works
Deeds of Grace are deeds God is happy about.

Deeds of the law/works of the law/observing the law. Depends if you read the KJV, NIV 1984 Edition, or later edition. It all means the same thing

 

[mailmandan]

Start a thread on this.
It's a very interesting subject.

Be my guest.

Was Peter also a devil?
Jesus said to him: "Get thee behind me satan".

Jesus had just revealed to His disciples that He must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. (Matthew 16:21; Mark 8:31) Peter was not prepared for this new revelation of the Messiah’s purpose and apparently could not reconcile his view of the conquering Messiah with the suffering and death Jesus spoke of. So Peter rebuked Jesus for having such a mindset. Peter was inadvertently being used of Satan in thinking that he was protecting Jesus, yet Jesus rebuked Peter. Although Peter truly believed that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God (Matthew 16:16) he turned from God’s perspective in this situation and viewed the situation from man’s perspective, which brought about the rebuke from Jesus: “Get behind Me, Satan! For you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” (Mark 8:33). This does not mean that Peter was also a devil.

Jesus knew scripture had to be fulfilled. This DOES NOT prove Judas was never saved.

It does not help your case at all. John 13:18 - I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; BUT that the Scripture may be fulfilled, 'He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.' Do you think by Jesus choosing Judas, that must mean Judas was saved or that Judas was included in those "whom the Father gave to Jesus, He kept?"

John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. John 18:9 - that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, "Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none." Jesus did not lose Judas. Judas was already lost.

Syllogism

1. All given by the Father to Jesus are kept.
2. Judas was not kept.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father

Or, this way.

1. None of those given to Jesus by the Father will be lost by Jesus.
2. Judas is lost.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father.

See Mathew 10:1
Jesus sent the 12 out and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness. Can a devil cast out a devil?

In Matthew 10:1, we see that Jesus gave His 12 disciples power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease, so although this power was from Jesus, He still referred to Judas Iscariot as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him! (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11). Apparently, Judas believed that Jesus' name has the power to cast out demons (and His name did have that power) but Judas did not truly believe in His name (John 1:12) and become a child of God, but instead was the son of perdition (John 17:12).

Mathew 10:16
Jesus says: "Behold I send you out as sheep"

Jesus said send them out "as" sheep among wolves, which does not mean that Judas "was" truly a sheep. In John 8:31, Jesus said - "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine. Judas did not continue. Judas was not truly His disciple.

ohn 10:27 states that Jesus' sheep hear His voice, and He knows them.
So Judas was, at this time, a sheep of Jesus. I do keep hearing on this thread about the sheep and the goats...It's apparent that Jesus considered Judas one of the sheep that hear His voice.

"Unbelieving/unclean devil/who would betray Jesus/son of perdition" is not descriptive language of a sheep. Judas was NEVER a sheep of Jesus. In John 10:27-29, Jesus said - "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand." Does that describe Judas Iscariot? NO. Does betraying Jesus represent following Him? NO. Did Jesus give Judas eternal life? NO. Did Judas perish? YES. So much for your theories.

Mathew 10:20
Jesus tells the Apostles (all 12 of them) that it is NOT THEM that will speak,
but the FATHER who speaks in them. Are you saying God Father was present in Judas if Judas was a devil from the beginning?

How about a little context. Matthew 10:17 But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. 18 You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; 20 for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. This was still yet future and nothing is said about Judas experiencing this and he did not live that long. During His ministry, Jesus sent the 12 to preach only to Israel. Matthew 10:5 - These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ The disciples were specifically told to go only to the people of Israel. Your Father present in Judas theory falls short, but still applies to the remaining 11 disciples.

What does scripture say about Judas?

Judas was an unbelieving devil who would betray Jesus and Jesus knew this from the beginning. John 6:64-71
Judas was a traitor. Luke 6:16
Judas was a betrayer. Multiple verses.
Judas was a thief and did not care for the poor. John 12:6
Judas was unclean. John 13:11
Judas guilty of a greater sin. John 19:11
Judas was not kept and was the son of perdition. John 17:12

Does that sound like "saved" to you?

 

[GodsGrace101]

The exact opposite of what you think is the path and exactly why those that blend faith and works for will not make the cut....at the end of the day you do not trust JESUS, but rather yourself.......!!

Those that blend faith and works will not make the cut.....whatever that means...
You mean lose REWARDS, as you always say?

But those who believe in faith only when all Jesus did was talk about doing good deeds...
you say THEY will make the cut....

Interesting bible you're reading.

 

[GodsGrace101]

HHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH she has jokes.....you could not divide a ham sandwich must less the truth with your I keep myself saved drivel....

Since YOU are so good at explaining concepts...
Explain
2 Timothy 2:15

We could discuss....

 

[GodsGrace101]

I can just as easily say that you don't know as well.......Galatians condemns your heretical I keep myself saved rigmarole.....I guess your JESUS is too weak and inept to actually save you.......right?

Explained it many times.
You keep bringing up Galatians.
Why?
Which verses do you care to discuss?
Maybe why the book was written?
Your choice.