Not By Works
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The FREE GIFT of God is His only begotten Son Jesus Christ.
(Romans 6:23, revelations 22:17)
“For God so loved the world that HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have ETERNAL LIFE. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.” John 3:16-21
...Now THIS IS ETERNAL LIFE: THAT THEY MAY KNOW YOU, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. John 17:3
Then John said;
...WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE COME TO KNOW HIM IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a LIAR, and THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know WE ARE IN HIM: Whoever CLAIMS to live in him MUST WALK as Jesus did.
WE CAN BE IN JESUS IF WE OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS. HE IS THE LIFE THAT WE MUST ENTER IN. (john 14:6)... ETERNAL LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS. (Romans 6:23)
...If you want TO ENTER LIFE, obey the commandments.” matthew 19:17
...Although he was a son, HE LEARNED OBEDIENCE FROM WHAT HE SUFFERED hebrews 5:8
...To this you were called, because Christ SUFFERED for you, LEAVING YOU AN EXAMPLE, that YOU SHOULD FOLLOW IN HIS STEPS. 1 Peter 2:21
...For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE IN HIM, but also TO SUFFER FOR HIM, Philippians 1:29
Those who truly believes in the Son of God loves the light and Jesus is the LIGHT of the world.
Whoever loves Jesus stays in the light and OBEYS His commands. Whoever does not OBEY His commands hates the LIGHT. Whoever hates the LIGHT, hates God. Whoever hates God are ENEMIES of God.
...THEY STUMBLE BECAUSE THEY DISOBEY THE MESSAGE—which is also what they were destined for. 1 Peter 2:8
...As far as the gospel is concerned, they are ENEMIES on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are IRREVOCABLE. Romans 11:28-29
Paul was talking here about GOD'S calling and gifts to Israel.
...the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. Romans 9:4-5
...This is IRREVOCABLE.
But what did he say to the Gentiles?
...I am talking to you Gentiles. In as much as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches. If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, DO NOT BOAST OVER THOSE BRANCHES. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. DO NOT BE ARROGANT, BUT BE AFRAID. For if God did not spare the natural branches, HE WILL NOT SPARE YOU EITHER. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, PROVIDED that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, YOU ALSO WILL BE CUT OFF. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! Romans 11:13-24
(Romans 6:23, revelations 22:17)
“For God so loved the world that HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have ETERNAL LIFE. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.” John 3:16-21
...Now THIS IS ETERNAL LIFE: THAT THEY MAY KNOW YOU, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. John 17:3
Then John said;
...WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE COME TO KNOW HIM IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a LIAR, and THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know WE ARE IN HIM: Whoever CLAIMS to live in him MUST WALK as Jesus did.
WE CAN BE IN JESUS IF WE OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS. HE IS THE LIFE THAT WE MUST ENTER IN. (john 14:6)... ETERNAL LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS. (Romans 6:23)
...If you want TO ENTER LIFE, obey the commandments.” matthew 19:17
...Although he was a son, HE LEARNED OBEDIENCE FROM WHAT HE SUFFERED hebrews 5:8
...To this you were called, because Christ SUFFERED for you, LEAVING YOU AN EXAMPLE, that YOU SHOULD FOLLOW IN HIS STEPS. 1 Peter 2:21
...For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE IN HIM, but also TO SUFFER FOR HIM, Philippians 1:29
Those who truly believes in the Son of God loves the light and Jesus is the LIGHT of the world.
Whoever loves Jesus stays in the light and OBEYS His commands. Whoever does not OBEY His commands hates the LIGHT. Whoever hates the LIGHT, hates God. Whoever hates God are ENEMIES of God.
...THEY STUMBLE BECAUSE THEY DISOBEY THE MESSAGE—which is also what they were destined for. 1 Peter 2:8
...As far as the gospel is concerned, they are ENEMIES on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are IRREVOCABLE. Romans 11:28-29
Paul was talking here about GOD'S calling and gifts to Israel.
...the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. Romans 9:4-5
...This is IRREVOCABLE.
But what did he say to the Gentiles?
...I am talking to you Gentiles. In as much as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches. If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, DO NOT BOAST OVER THOSE BRANCHES. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. DO NOT BE ARROGANT, BUT BE AFRAID. For if God did not spare the natural branches, HE WILL NOT SPARE YOU EITHER. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, PROVIDED that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, YOU ALSO WILL BE CUT OFF. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! Romans 11:13-24
Your biblical eyes are exactly how the religious leaders of Jesus time saw the world around them. Everybody is wrong, we will never understand God's will, and only I know the true path to God. What a deprived individual you are Studyman.
Your criticism of Evangelical Christianity is your downfall, "I know the way to God and the vast Evangelical Christianity is Lost." Not only have you insulted the works of millions of True Christians for following Jesus Christ's "Great Commission", but you refuse to use our Saviors God given first name, "Jesus"
Matthew1:21
Your criticism of Evangelical Christianity is your downfall, "I know the way to God and the vast Evangelical Christianity is Lost." Not only have you insulted the works of millions of True Christians for following Jesus Christ's "Great Commission", but you refuse to use our Saviors God given first name, "Jesus"
Matthew1:21
She will give birth to a son, and 'you are to give him the name Jesus', because he will save his people from their sins."
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here's your answer -- if you are willing to study.
how is it that the Spirit of God says this?
while the same Spirit of the same God also says this?
how is it that the Spirit of God says this?
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
(Galatians 5:1-2)
while the same Spirit of the same God also says this?
And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.
(Luke 2:21)
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The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.
These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)
...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13
...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2
How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?
We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.
Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?
..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.
...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:10-14, 24
...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15
...And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.
Ephesians 5:6-7
...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”...
Genesis 3:1-19
Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.
The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God.
Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why resist them?
So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?
These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)
...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13
...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2
How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?
We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.
Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?
..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.
...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:10-14, 24
...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15
...And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.
Ephesians 5:6-7
...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”...
Genesis 3:1-19
Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.
The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God.
Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why resist them?
So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?
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Yeah actually you are justifying evil by claiming your evil (sin) is somehow ok. While other people evil (sin) is not ok. How you can sin your sins and still get to heaven but they can not.
Because the Bible, both OT and NT, distinguish between intentional (presumptuous) sins and unintentional sins. The Modern Church has conflated the two. I can say before the Lord i am committed to avoiding sin. This does not mean I don't sin just that i am committed to avoiding it. Yet Christians, if you take the time to study what they believe, provide evidence many are living in sin.
As for your little bit of grace and little bit of works?? I will let paul answer you.
You keep making the mistake of quoting parts of scripture as if that they are in of themselves, the truth. It would be like opening a book, reading sentences 1002 and 1124 and stating that is what the whole book said. Scripture is meant to be taken as a whole. Here is an example. What are all judgments in the NT based on? (See below the scripture from John 5:29)
Works is a BYPRODUCT of grace. But SALVATION is WHOLLY of grace. We agree but a necessary part for the nominal Christian. That is that those that don't have a death bed or near death experience. If you really believe what you say, then answer this question before God here and now. Can a person who has truly accepted Jesus Christ live in continual and intentional sin and be saved? What you are preaching tells me your answer is YES.
Anything you do to EARN a reward. A wage or anything at all. Is called salvation by works. Or washing yourself. That is what YOU say, but not scripture. it is demonstrating a true and saving faith; there is a difference. Furthermore, you did not directly answer the question. So if we accept Jesus Christ, have we worked for our salvation?
Titus 3: 5, NOT by works of righteousness which I HAVE DONE (one could add are doing or will do) HE SAVED ME (A completed action) By the washing and regeneration of the HS. We can debate the Greek on this if you like. Only partially correct.
You can walk in the spirit all you want (or say you are) if your spirit has not been made completely clean (jesus said this is done by the WORD) your walking in self righteousness. And trying to earn salvation by that walk. Good luck with that.. We have covered this. There is nothing you can bring to the cross to earn your salvation. But once you have accepted Jesus Christ, you are to live faithfully. To suggest there does not need to be any relation between your life and your faith after coming to Christ is unBiblical.
So instead you want pteachers to teach works, and reject grace. And place people under law (the penalty of sin is death) instead of preaching the one thing which empowers christian growth (the knowledge we HAVE eternal life. Not trying to EARN it like your trying to preach) And you are willing to excuse your sins (water down the law) by saying your sins are not bad. But if people go out and commit adultry (king david) or murder) King David, Moses, and many others) that they will go to hell. You are putting words in my mouth. I want people to live a life consistent with their faith and am here to tell you and others scripturally that if you are not committed to living that way, you are deceived. As i have stated, you can claim belief but if you don't act on that belief, you really don't believe. It is a game that Satan has many people playing. It works that way with everything in our life whether its medicine, stock market, love, etc. When we believe we act. The Modern Church says that there is no relationship between faith and works and the Bible over and over says that's a lie.
James 2:10
Agreed but whats the point? I have never stated works is the based of being saved. What i stated is that works are the outcome of a true faith and that is correct.
You see, you can continue to preach obedience, and continue to preach our salvation is dependent on it. But you better be able to live up to its standard. If you break even one part of the law. No matter hw small or inconsiquential you think that sin is. Your just as guilty as the murderers you wish to condemn. No, no, no. Its why the Word of God is able to judge the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. First that is untrue semantically because there are greater and lesser sins however i understand your point that our sins have separated us from God. This is why we must come to Christ in faith. We can not save ourselves no matter what we do. But what you keep missing is the evidence of a true and saving faith is works (avoiding bad, doing good).
Me I will preach grace, forgiveness. And the power of healing. Which is the ONLY way those people you HATE will have any power over their sin..Even to people like you who thibnk their sin does not stink. People overcome their sin by listening to the Holy Spirit instead of grieving or quenching Him. The sin stink thing is getting old. The Bible distinguishes the difference.
The RESULT of salvation is works (eph 2: 10) as experenced by many examples in scripture (heb 11) but is a process, called sanctification. Which scripture says, He who negan that good work (God) Will complete it until the day of Christ (phil 1:6 and I can be confident of that thing (unless I believe my works are required to maintain salvation, in which case I have NO CONFIDENCE that God wll do what he promised my confidence thus resides in self. So may i understand you to teach that man has no free will to reject what God will do? That it WHY it is stated as a confidence. God leads; man chooses to follow or not follow. You must be able to see that in all the encouragements, admonitions and warnings in the NT. You must be able to see that in God's commands to us to abide and endure. The
If its not a fact. I have no means of encouragement, I am only left with desipair and continually trying to work to finish the work myself. You can have that encouragement if you are committed to live as our Lord desires. What you defend (answer the question above) is that you can claim faith and live in sin and it makes no difference to your eternal destination. You defend the right to continue sinning after coming to faith in Jesus Christ and want to be assured that if you are committed to sin, it does not matter. That is what you LOGICALLY defend because you have so dissociated works from faith that a person of faith may live in sin. Consider for a moment: "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. " Notice what it does not say. it does not say that those who have accepted me (Jesus) will enter into the resurrection of life. it says THEY THAT HAVE DONE GOOD. They are part and parcel of the same system.
Or lie to myself and say I am ok, because I do not commit these grossly evil sins (see pharisee) And it says specifically, He WILL COMPLETE it UNTIL the day of christ, He does not say he WILL complete only as long as we do works. Or do not do these sins, or whatever you are trying to add to the verse. Nice try though No it does not. That is the way you read it, not the text. It is a confidence, not a fact. That is EXACTLY what it says although you read it for fact. You don't have to lie to yourself if you are committed to submitting to God's will.
Again, I till let scripture speak for me No here you read what you WANT out of scripture, NOT what it actually says.
I am perfected forever. At the same time, I am continuing the process. And will continue until the day I am removed from this earth (the day of Christ) at which time I will be glorified..
Okay i read through this and you need read the entire chapter. There are only two conclusions i can come to from this. The first is that sanctification does not guarantee salvation. The second is that sanctification is not necessarily permanent. The passage is talking about Jesus being an eternal sacrifice yet when we get down to verses 26 and on we are told that for those who sin willfully, there is no sacrifice for sins for the sanctified person. OMT for your Greek, sanctification is almost universally used in the Aorist tense meaning it is a point in time activity. Also, even Calvin believed (if you read Institutes) that justification is not a one time event but continuous. That the sacrifice of Christ provides for continuous forgiveness of sins.
You keep watering down the law and thinking your righteous.. God will let you know how that is going for you one day. I submit myself to His discipline EVERY DAY for i would rather be disciplined NOW than miss the grace of our Lord and Savior. You are more than welcome to pray for His guidance in my life in whatever form He thinks best.
Because the Bible, both OT and NT, distinguish between intentional (presumptuous) sins and unintentional sins. The Modern Church has conflated the two. I can say before the Lord i am committed to avoiding sin. This does not mean I don't sin just that i am committed to avoiding it. Yet Christians, if you take the time to study what they believe, provide evidence many are living in sin.
As for your little bit of grace and little bit of works?? I will let paul answer you.
You keep making the mistake of quoting parts of scripture as if that they are in of themselves, the truth. It would be like opening a book, reading sentences 1002 and 1124 and stating that is what the whole book said. Scripture is meant to be taken as a whole. Here is an example. What are all judgments in the NT based on? (See below the scripture from John 5:29)
Works is a BYPRODUCT of grace. But SALVATION is WHOLLY of grace. We agree but a necessary part for the nominal Christian. That is that those that don't have a death bed or near death experience. If you really believe what you say, then answer this question before God here and now. Can a person who has truly accepted Jesus Christ live in continual and intentional sin and be saved? What you are preaching tells me your answer is YES.
Anything you do to EARN a reward. A wage or anything at all. Is called salvation by works. Or washing yourself. That is what YOU say, but not scripture. it is demonstrating a true and saving faith; there is a difference. Furthermore, you did not directly answer the question. So if we accept Jesus Christ, have we worked for our salvation?
Titus 3: 5, NOT by works of righteousness which I HAVE DONE (one could add are doing or will do) HE SAVED ME (A completed action) By the washing and regeneration of the HS. We can debate the Greek on this if you like. Only partially correct.
You can walk in the spirit all you want (or say you are) if your spirit has not been made completely clean (jesus said this is done by the WORD) your walking in self righteousness. And trying to earn salvation by that walk. Good luck with that.. We have covered this. There is nothing you can bring to the cross to earn your salvation. But once you have accepted Jesus Christ, you are to live faithfully. To suggest there does not need to be any relation between your life and your faith after coming to Christ is unBiblical.
So instead you want pteachers to teach works, and reject grace. And place people under law (the penalty of sin is death) instead of preaching the one thing which empowers christian growth (the knowledge we HAVE eternal life. Not trying to EARN it like your trying to preach) And you are willing to excuse your sins (water down the law) by saying your sins are not bad. But if people go out and commit adultry (king david) or murder) King David, Moses, and many others) that they will go to hell. You are putting words in my mouth. I want people to live a life consistent with their faith and am here to tell you and others scripturally that if you are not committed to living that way, you are deceived. As i have stated, you can claim belief but if you don't act on that belief, you really don't believe. It is a game that Satan has many people playing. It works that way with everything in our life whether its medicine, stock market, love, etc. When we believe we act. The Modern Church says that there is no relationship between faith and works and the Bible over and over says that's a lie.
James 2:10
Agreed but whats the point? I have never stated works is the based of being saved. What i stated is that works are the outcome of a true faith and that is correct.
You see, you can continue to preach obedience, and continue to preach our salvation is dependent on it. But you better be able to live up to its standard. If you break even one part of the law. No matter hw small or inconsiquential you think that sin is. Your just as guilty as the murderers you wish to condemn. No, no, no. Its why the Word of God is able to judge the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. First that is untrue semantically because there are greater and lesser sins however i understand your point that our sins have separated us from God. This is why we must come to Christ in faith. We can not save ourselves no matter what we do. But what you keep missing is the evidence of a true and saving faith is works (avoiding bad, doing good).
Me I will preach grace, forgiveness. And the power of healing. Which is the ONLY way those people you HATE will have any power over their sin..Even to people like you who thibnk their sin does not stink. People overcome their sin by listening to the Holy Spirit instead of grieving or quenching Him. The sin stink thing is getting old. The Bible distinguishes the difference.
The RESULT of salvation is works (eph 2: 10) as experenced by many examples in scripture (heb 11) but is a process, called sanctification. Which scripture says, He who negan that good work (God) Will complete it until the day of Christ (phil 1:6 and I can be confident of that thing (unless I believe my works are required to maintain salvation, in which case I have NO CONFIDENCE that God wll do what he promised my confidence thus resides in self. So may i understand you to teach that man has no free will to reject what God will do? That it WHY it is stated as a confidence. God leads; man chooses to follow or not follow. You must be able to see that in all the encouragements, admonitions and warnings in the NT. You must be able to see that in God's commands to us to abide and endure. The
If its not a fact. I have no means of encouragement, I am only left with desipair and continually trying to work to finish the work myself. You can have that encouragement if you are committed to live as our Lord desires. What you defend (answer the question above) is that you can claim faith and live in sin and it makes no difference to your eternal destination. You defend the right to continue sinning after coming to faith in Jesus Christ and want to be assured that if you are committed to sin, it does not matter. That is what you LOGICALLY defend because you have so dissociated works from faith that a person of faith may live in sin. Consider for a moment: "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. " Notice what it does not say. it does not say that those who have accepted me (Jesus) will enter into the resurrection of life. it says THEY THAT HAVE DONE GOOD. They are part and parcel of the same system.
Or lie to myself and say I am ok, because I do not commit these grossly evil sins (see pharisee) And it says specifically, He WILL COMPLETE it UNTIL the day of christ, He does not say he WILL complete only as long as we do works. Or do not do these sins, or whatever you are trying to add to the verse. Nice try though No it does not. That is the way you read it, not the text. It is a confidence, not a fact. That is EXACTLY what it says although you read it for fact. You don't have to lie to yourself if you are committed to submitting to God's will.
Again, I till let scripture speak for me No here you read what you WANT out of scripture, NOT what it actually says.
I am perfected forever. At the same time, I am continuing the process. And will continue until the day I am removed from this earth (the day of Christ) at which time I will be glorified..
Okay i read through this and you need read the entire chapter. There are only two conclusions i can come to from this. The first is that sanctification does not guarantee salvation. The second is that sanctification is not necessarily permanent. The passage is talking about Jesus being an eternal sacrifice yet when we get down to verses 26 and on we are told that for those who sin willfully, there is no sacrifice for sins for the sanctified person. OMT for your Greek, sanctification is almost universally used in the Aorist tense meaning it is a point in time activity. Also, even Calvin believed (if you read Institutes) that justification is not a one time event but continuous. That the sacrifice of Christ provides for continuous forgiveness of sins.
You keep watering down the law and thinking your righteous.. God will let you know how that is going for you one day. I submit myself to His discipline EVERY DAY for i would rather be disciplined NOW than miss the grace of our Lord and Savior. You are more than welcome to pray for His guidance in my life in whatever form He thinks best.
Bill thanks for the thoughtful reply. Let me ask you this. How do you understand the status of those Christians and their Pastors that support abortion, homosexual lifestyles, adultery, greed, who are engaged in the world and its pleasures, who refused to be baptized, etc? These people are LIVING in rebellion to the Lord. Can we really having a true and saving faith and live in rebellion to the Lord?
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