Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Nice try rebel soldier. Ever heard of Lucifers pride and rebellion and the Son of perdition? Doesn't sound like he's obedient to authorities. Now if you're a good soldier, YOU will obey your commanding officer. Take as an example the people of God who won so many battles and were saved from destruction whenever they OBEY God as their commander. Did you trust and OBEY your commanding officer in the Marines?

Why won't you obey the Lord Jesus when He says that "if you want to ENTER LIFE, obey the commandments. (Matthew 19:17)

...“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? Luke 6:46
Jesus did not tell anyone that obeying the commandments = heaven.....see how deceptive you are...HE ALSO SAID YOU LACK ONE THING.....but hey....wisdom is justified of her children.....and your wisdom = zero.....!!!
 
J

J70x7

Guest
2 Thessalonians 2:14
Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
Listening and Doing
...My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man’s anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you. James 1:19-21
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
Two Kinds of Wisdom
... Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice. But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness. James 3:13-18
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
38,015
13,635
113
all of us - here in the USA at least - have freedom of speech.

however is there anything you would never say?
maybe you would never say some particular thing to some person or group of people you feel strongly about, or some things you wouldn't utter at all, no matter to whom, or even if you were by yourself and no other man or woman was listening?

that is in part what it is like to be a servant or righteousness though you are not under law; to do good even without fear & threat of punishment.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
38,015
13,635
113
2 Thessalonians 2:14
Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.
Stand firm, then
(Galatians 5:1)
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,577
13,552
113
58
Abraham was saved because of his FAITH.
Amen! Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: (y)
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
Jesus did not tell anyone that obeying the commandments = heaven.....see how deceptive you are...HE ALSO SAID YOU LACK ONE THING.....but hey....wisdom is justified of her children.....and your wisdom = zero.....!!!
...Then Jesus cried out, “When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me. I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. “As for the person who HEARS MY WORDS but DOES NOT KEEP THEM, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I KNOW THAT HIS COMMAND LEADS TO ETERNAL LIFE. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.” John 12:44-50
 
J

J70x7

Guest
2 Timothy 4:3
For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears:
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,719
113
Notice the huge missing element from the works gospel being preached here?

What Christ has wrought is missing, their posts are devoid of this reality, making their message gospel-less.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
We were JUSTIFIED thru FAITH in Christ. By His sacrifice on the cross, His HOLY blood shed for the forgiveness of our sins, we were made righteous. A righteousness thru FAITH.


Imputed righteousness is simply “Christ in us”



...To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Colossians 1:27


...It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our RIGHTEOUSNESS, holiness and redemption. 1 Corinthians 1:30


No one can be considered righteous without Christ in Him and he in Christ.


For Christ to be in us, we must believe and accept what we have heard (Romans 10:8-17), the WORD planted in us, which can SAVE us, (James 1:21, john 1:1-14,Matthew 13:18-23) then we will receive the promised Holy Spirit. (Galatians 3:14) The Holy Spirit will lead us unto all truth and He will be our Counselor (john 14:26) enabling us to obey His commandments which leads to RIGHTEOUSNESS leading to holiness and the result is eternal life. (Romans 6:16-22)


...Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? Romans 6:16


...“I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; APART FROM ME YOU CAN DO NOTHING. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples. John 15:5-8


...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
Two Kinds of Wisdom
... Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice. But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness. James 3:13-18

1 Corinthians 2:6-14 (NIV)
6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
7 No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
. . .
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.


If you have Never been Born Again,
that Verse 14, would explain why you do not understand the Verses in the same way as most of us that are Born Again. Yes there are TWO TYPES OF WISDOM, - Of the World and the Wisdom only the Holy Spirit can reveal to us.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Notice the huge missing element from the works gospel being preached here?

What Christ has wrought is missing, their posts are devoid of this reality, making their message gospel-less.
Exactly......all me me me......and what I do......no emphasis upon Christ, his work his ministry, his power, his promises.....just legalistic, law keeping drivel and or some faux I keep the commandments of God rigmarole.....!!!
 
Dec 1, 2018
92
28
18
Where on earth did EG say that or even imply that with regards to murder?
If neither apply why ask such a question?

And as EG rightly said



Yet you ask him such a question.

That seems the go to for those opposed to

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Wow, I mean really. Where do I even start?

1. No one was promised the HS in the OT. And he definately was not promised to remain, as God took it away from Saul the first king, and gave it to david. As king Of Israel. David did not wish the same fate to happen to him because of his sins

2. Jesus promised the CHURCH the HS. He was not talking about giving them as induviduals. And as with the kings of Israel. If the church turns, God will remove the light

3. We are said to be lights in the world. The HS is the power of that light. When he enters in, its like lighting a candle. When it is lit. We are drawing people to the light. When it is extibguished there is no light to draw to people ( we can;t be used by God_ But take a candle and extinguish the fire. The candle is still there We just can not see it light.

You need to study man, You are so willing to try to make yourself righteous so that God will accept you You can not see the FACT. That your righteousness is as filthy rags.

As paul told us in Titus, It is NT by works of righteousness whcih we have done, But By Gods mercy, He has saved us by the washing and rebirth of the HS.

Instread of tryign to wash yourself. Try humbling yourself and allowing God to wash you.
Again, you cannot see what the breadth of scripture says. Has NOTHING to do with washing myself. it is following the Spirit. It is you that oppose that because you tie following where the Holy Spirit leads with works done in the flesh. They are not the same. It is why we are told specifically "If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him. " and "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. " You are quoting man made interpretations of scripture instead of scripture itself. Dude, it is you who need to study for you are justifying evil. Again i will simply quote Romans 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God". You have made the critical error in believing a person can consistently refuse to follow where the Holy Spirit leads (which includes following the commandments) and yet still believe. Good luck.....
 
Dec 6, 2018
46
25
18
We were JUSTIFIED thru FAITH in Christ. By His sacrifice on the cross, His HOLY blood shed for the forgiveness of our sins, we were made righteous. A righteousness thru FAITH.


Imputed righteousness is simply “Christ in us”



...To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Colossians 1:27


...It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our RIGHTEOUSNESS, holiness and redemption. 1 Corinthians 1:30


No one can be considered righteous without Christ in Him and he in Christ.


For Christ to be in us, we must believe and accept what we have heard (Romans 10:8-17), the WORD planted in us, which can SAVE us, (James 1:21, john 1:1-14,Matthew 13:18-23) then we will receive the promised Holy Spirit. (Galatians 3:14) The Holy Spirit will lead us unto all truth and He will be our Counselor (john 14:26) enabling us to obey His commandments which leads to RIGHTEOUSNESS leading to holiness and the result is eternal life. (Romans 6:16-22)


...Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? Romans 6:16


...“I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; APART FROM ME YOU CAN DO NOTHING. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples. John 15:5-8


...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6
@Argueless you’ve been giving the word of God, purely the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, now some HAVE CHOSEN TO DENY IT not only that, now they accuse falsely, and say their minds(which is falsehood), thinking evil, they have become Vain in their Imaginations..

Romans 1:18 (KJV)
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;


Anyone who consent not to Christ’s words and doctrines —>

If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

It has been said already that salvation cannot be earned by WORKS, therefore No one can be saved by works and that when One is saved, God’s work is wrought mightily in such one, thereby such one do the mind of God, the will of God, to the glory of God. In Such one, grace reigns through RIGHTEOUSNESS unto eternal life by Jesus Christ.

All these have been spoken and cried out!!, yet they deny it, and Accuse falsely, just because that is what the evil one is known to do. He accuses Falsely.


They intend to bring up arguments with the word of God, even when the truth is seen. Because the Truth is Light. But one may choose to accept or reject it.
Therefore it has been said, it has been spoken, and it is manisfested, that the word of God stands, and it is sure and True.

Therefore I pray God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth.🙏🏿
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
@Argueless you’ve been giving the word of God, purely the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, now some HAVE CHOSEN TO DENY IT not only that, now they accuse falsely, and say their minds(which is falsehood), thinking evil, they have become Vain in their Imaginations..

Romans 1:18 (KJV)
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;


Anyone who consent not to Christ’s words and doctrines —>

If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

It has been said already that salvation cannot be earned by WORKS, therefore No one can be saved by works and that when One is saved, God’s work is wrought mightily in such one, thereby such one do the mind of God, the will of God, to the glory of God. In Such one, grace reigns through RIGHTEOUSNESS unto eternal life by Jesus Christ.

All these have been spoken and cried out!!, yet they deny it, and Accuse falsely, just because that is what the evil one is known to do. He accuses Falsely.


They intend to bring up arguments with the word of God, even when the truth is seen. Because the Truth is Light. But one may choose to accept or reject it.
Therefore it has been said, it has been spoken, and it is manisfested, that the word of God stands, and it is sure and True.

Therefore I pray God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth.🙏🏿
Amen and God bless you and your household.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
@Argueless you’ve been giving the word of God, purely the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, now some HAVE CHOSEN TO DENY IT not only that, now they accuse falsely, and say their minds(which is falsehood), thinking evil, they have become Vain in their Imaginations..

Romans 1:18 (KJV)
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;


Anyone who consent not to Christ’s words and doctrines —>

If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

It has been said already that salvation cannot be earned by WORKS, therefore No one can be saved by works and that when One is saved, God’s work is wrought mightily in such one, thereby such one do the mind of God, the will of God, to the glory of God. In Such one, grace reigns through RIGHTEOUSNESS unto eternal life by Jesus Christ.

All these have been spoken and cried out!!, yet they deny it, and Accuse falsely, just because that is what the evil one is known to do. He accuses Falsely.


They intend to bring up arguments with the word of God, even when the truth is seen. Because the Truth is Light. But one may choose to accept or reject it.
Therefore it has been said, it has been spoken, and it is manisfested, that the word of God stands, and it is sure and True.

Therefore I pray God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth.🙏🏿
Not quite pal.....he has been doing nothing but breaking the rules by coming back after being banned once already for nothing but accusatory diatribe and incessant posts with walls of scripture out of context......his time will be short again......!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Again, you cannot see what the breadth of scripture says. Has NOTHING to do with washing myself. it is following the Spirit. It is you that oppose that because you tie following where the Holy Spirit leads with works done in the flesh. They are not the same. It is why we are told specifically "If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him. " and "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. " You are quoting man made interpretations of scripture instead of scripture itself. Dude, it is you who need to study for you are justifying evil. Again i will simply quote Romans 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God". You have made the critical error in believing a person can consistently refuse to follow where the Holy Spirit leads (which includes following the commandments) and yet still believe. Good luck.....
Lol

Ok, here is the facts.

1. I am not justifying evil. I am holding onto the grace that has and continues to save me (something I am not sure you understand)
2. You say you do not wash yourself. Yet you say it is YOUR WALK IN THE SPIRIT that saves you, news flash. By defenition that is you washing yourself. (It is your power of walking that saves you)
3. I agree. He who is born of him does learn to walk like him and they aught to lve as he lived. But even paul acknowledged this is a learning process. A baby can not act like an adult (he can not drive, hold a job, Follow a map to get someplace or many other “adult” things, He can not even do things a child can do. Let alone what a teenager can do. ) So saying a baby Christan can act like an child, a teen, or even an adult is not understanding what a true babe is (its why they need fed milk, they can not grasp the cpncept of mature things) and they will not even have the capacity to live like Christ did at that time, because they have to LEARN (A process called sanctification) which evidently you do not understand either!

4. Your strawman that I preach, believe or even think a person who claims to be saved, yet never do a thing God says (work) has ever been saved, is not only ignorant of you (you have no idea what I believe) but outright offensive..(true faith works, it does not sit on a couch and do nothing)

So you study up on some christian growth, what it looks like and all the things that can afffect it. And study the word where it says he who BEGAN a good work WILL Complete it. And also that he has PERFECTED FOREVER those who he is IN THE PROCESS OF SANCTIFYING. Then get back with me.. ok?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Not quite pal.....he has been doing nothing but breaking the rules by coming back after being banned once already for nothing but accusatory diatribe and incessant posts with walls of scripture out of context......his time will be short again......!
I don’t get the dude, He goes around preaching sinless perfection. Then attacks us and stands for a person who does not believe in sinless perfection. But believes we can sin our way out of salvation.

Talk about a contradiction!!