Not By Works

[Studyman]

Actually Endoscopy is correct, "Christians know works doesn't save."

God bless you Endoscopy.

​

For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

So in your religion, did your Christ say this?

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Or do you worship another?

 

[Argueless]

What are these disobedient works?

They claimed great works but were rejected because he never knew them.
My thoughts on this is that they obviously never knew him either, they claim they did.

If we look at the verses preceding the ones under discussion

Matthew 7:15-20

You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
(Matt. 12:33; Luke 6:43–45)
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Which leads to

Matthew 7:21-23

I Never Knew You
(Luke 6:46; 13:26, 27)
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

So is it possible that those who practice lawlessness are actually those who come in sheep's clothing but are infact ravenous wolves?
If that's the case then they have no interest in knowing Jesus.
They are only interested in themselves, their ego and personal gain.
They are not the sheep that Jesus accepted but the goats that Jesus rejected.

So why did he not know them?
If he had have known them why did he not say "I knew you once but?

We know that works will be judged yet we also know

1 Corinthians 3:9-15
9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.


Which confirms what Jesus said

Matthew 7:24-27

Build on the Rock
(Luke 6:47–49)
24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”

What is the will of our Father, what is the work of our Father?
What does God want from us, why did the word become flesh, why did Jesus die for us, what was achieved on the cross?

Are we reconciled to God by faith or works?

Sorry for the long post and lots of questions

We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

 

[dcontroversal]

"that one verse doesn't erase the rest of the Bible, dude" ____

The Lord is good to all, ​

and His mercy is over all that He has made!​

(Psalm 145:9) ​

​

Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ ​

For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.​

(Matthew 9:13)​

​

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. ​

(Matthew 23:23) ​

​

For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. ​

Mercy triumphs over judgment.​

(James 2:13) ​

​

Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.​

(Matthew 5:7)​

​

Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful. ​

(Luke 6:36) ​

​

He saved us, ​

not because of works done by us in righteousness, ​

but according to His own mercy​

(Titus 3:5) ​

​

With the merciful you show yourself merciful​

(2 Samuel 22:26)​

​

For He says to Moses, ​

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”​

(Romans 9:15) ​

​

Therefore, having this ministry by the mercy of God, we do not lose heart.​

(2 Corinthians 4:1) ​

​

I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.​

(Romans 12:1) ​

​

Amen....especially since it deals with a covenant which was conditional, a covenant that we are not UNDER......of course his salvation is probationary and conditional because he willingly places himself under that which condemns.......!!

 

[dcontroversal]

.•*¨❋.•*¨.•*¨❋️.•*¨.•*¨❋.•*¨.•*¨❋
SUNDAY ️ BLESSINGS
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
- ‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:13‬ ‭
.•*¨❋.•*¨.•*¨❋️.•*¨.•*¨❋.•*¨.•*¨❋

Amen Rose.....God saves those that actually believe!!

 

[BillG]

We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

Doesn't really answer my questions

 

[dcontroversal]

that's a mischaracterization.

Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. ​

(Romans 10:3) ​

God's definition of righteousness isn't a righteousness that you establish by doing works.

. . . as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.​

But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ — the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.​

(Philippians 3:6-9)​

it is not by righteous works that i may do that He calls me righteous, not by obedience to His law, even if i were blameless under it.
it is by faith in a righteousness that is not of ourselves.

And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. ​

(Isaiah 32:17) ​

it is His righteousness, in Whom we have put our trust, not in our own which is comprised of obedience in actions.
and the result is peace and assurance forever.
but there is no rest for the wicked, just as there is no rest for anyone who - indeed setting aside the grace of God - believes they must establish righteousness of their own through constant will and exertion and effort. all our righteous works? filthy rags. Jesus tells us the attitude we ought to have about them:

So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, ​

'We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.'​

(Luke 17:10) ​

the accusation that believing these things and holding to them as true means we don't do any good works? strawdude.
because of His mercy to the ungodly, we ought to strive to do what pleases Him. not in order to attain mercy, but because He has freely given it. thanksgiving offerings are not for atonement but in reply to the removal of sin

A worker for or Cainologist Pharisee cannot grasp the imputed righteousness of Christ by faith!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

So in your religion, did your Christ say this?

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Or do you worship another?

2 "C's" reject and condemn your peddled working for dogma...

a. CONTEXT
B. COVENANT

More Cainology from a modern day Pharisee

 

[dcontroversal]

Doesn't really answer my questions

Nor will it....Seoche peddles a working for, law/commandment keeping dogma that is akin to Catholicism and that which saves no one!

 

[ljs]

Amen....especially since it deals with a covenant which was conditional, a covenant that we are not UNDER......of course his salvation is probationary and conditional because he willingly places himself under that which condemns.......!!

Im reading a book right now called " The Clash of the Covenants "
Its amazing , and its a real shame that so many on this thread do exactly what you've said . Place themselves under the Old Covenant where they dont belong if they are saved

 

[dcontroversal]

What are these disobedient works?

They claimed great works but were rejected because he never knew them.
My thoughts on this is that they obviously never knew him either, they claim they did.

If we look at the verses preceding the ones under discussion

Matthew 7:15-20

You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
(Matt. 12:33; Luke 6:43–45)
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Which leads to

Matthew 7:21-23

I Never Knew You
(Luke 6:46; 13:26, 27)
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

So is it possible that those who practice lawlessness are actually those who come in sheep's clothing but are infact ravenous wolves?
If that's the case then they have no interest in knowing Jesus.
They are only interested in themselves, their ego and personal gain.
They are not the sheep that Jesus accepted but the goats that Jesus rejected.

So why did he not know them?
If he had have known them why did he not say "I knew you once but?

We know that works will be judged yet we also know

1 Corinthians 3:9-15
9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.


Which confirms what Jesus said

Matthew 7:24-27

Build on the Rock
(Luke 6:47–49)
24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”

What is the will of our Father, what is the work of our Father?
What does God want from us, why did the word become flesh, why did Jesus die for us, what was achieved on the cross?

Are we reconciled to God by faith or works?

Sorry for the long post and lots of questions

It goes to the root of their gospel

Faith plus Works for or to keep<<--this is exactly what it can be boiled down to and exactly what numerous people peddle on this site.....!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Im reading a book right now called " The Clash of the Covenants "
Its amazing , and its a real shame that so many on this thread do exactly what you've said . Place themselves under the Old Covenant where they dont belong if they are saved

Amen and the tragic part.....they comdemn themselves in the process.....!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Thing is I don't like wine.
Champagne yes and a nice cold lager.

You might like my brother's wine haha or the wine JESUS MADE....haahha

 

[dcontroversal]

((sees about exchanging Christmas present)) . . .

Bone man you can get me a new Sword.....the kind that uses 7.65 or 5.56 OIL blend to grease the spline hahahahhahahaha

 

[Argueless]

Doesn't really answer my questions

LOVE is the answer bro.

.. And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE. (walk as Jesus did) 2 John 1:5-6

 

[VCO]

Suzy37 said:

VCO when I have the Truth why would I look for false doctrine and errors. Evidently you think you are born again as a fleshly mortal man so I want none of that! Why would I put Gods Church out for you to try and tramp it underfoot? You would be much better off reading the Bible and believing what it says instead of reading all this pagan nonsense into the scriptures!
&
I do not say your experience was not real but that it was being born again. not going to happen until the resurrection!

I do not know if you are still on this thread, but something was mentioned in today's Sermon, that made me think of you. Here is the Proof that your teachers have taught you an UNTRUTH.

1 Peter 1:3-4 (NASB)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,

There IS the proof that WE are BORN AGAIN, Past Tense, before our life long journey of Sanctification Can begin, becoming more and more like Like Christ.

Your INSTANT OBJECTION to our claiming the Holy Trinity is comprised of Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, is IN YOUR OPINION Pagan Nonsense. Carefully consider these Verses, and ALL OF SCRIPTURE was Inspired by GOD:

Colossians 2:9 (NASB)
9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

Colossians 1:19 (NASB)
19 For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,

Isaiah 43:10-11 (HCSB)
10 “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
11 I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.

Malachi 3:6 (HCSB)
6 “Because I, Yahweh, have not changed,
you descendants of Jacob have not been destroyed.

Luke 2:11 (HCSB)
11 Today a Savior, who is Messiah the Lord, was born for you in the city of David.


Think about it.

If Yahweh and Jesus are not the SAME DEITY, you have created a contradiction in the Word of GOD.

ONE DEITY made up of Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, and NO it is not Pagan Nonsense, IT IS THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH.


My advise is flee those who have been teaching you untruths.

 

[posthuman]

How are the creation of God's Word, and the instruction He created beforehand that I should walk in them "My human exertion"? where in the Bible has obedience to God been called "filthy Rags"?

​

​

6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities,(Lawlessness) like the wind, have taken us away. 7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.​

​

I guess this part of Isaiah's teaching didn't help promote your agenda.​

​

God's Righteousness is not filthy works. Shall I post the volumes of Scriptures where Isaiah talks about the Holiness of God's instruction? Or do you only believe this partial sentence?​

​

If a man denies Himself, and submits to the Righteousness of God as did Jesus, he is no longer doing "His own Righteous Works". As it is written: "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

It's in your Bible.

Only a man who has been convinced that God's Laws, and Pagan Laws are no different, "just a bunch of laws" that are "against us" can one believe God's Righteous, Holy, and "good" Work's are "Filthy Works".

The implication that God's Laws, like His Sabbath, are Holy until I "strive" to follow them, then they become filthy is foolish beyond compare. But hey, the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time taught you couldn't walk and eat a strawberry on His Sabbath. Maybe if you understood and believed the scripture "Man is evil above all things and desperately wicked" you might understand the difference between God's Works, and Man's Works.

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God. (The Definition of God's Righteousness) but with the flesh (My righteous works) the law of sin. (which is death.)

Isn't the whole purpose of repentance, according to Paul, to Repent, turn to God and "DO WORKS" worthy of repentance?

Acts 26:
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Shall these works be the Holy, Perfect, Righteous "works of God", or do you preach we are "FREE" to create our own righteousness?

do not slander.

it's about whether it is you who sanctify yourself, or God who sanctifies you.

look at Matthew 17:24-27

 

[Studyman]

2 "C's" reject and condemn your peddled working for dogma...

a. CONTEXT
B. COVENANT

More Cainology from a modern day Pharisee

Does that mean no. Your Jesus didn't say these things as the Word which became flesh?

 

[Studyman]

do not slander.

it's about whether it is you who sanctify yourself, or God who sanctifies you.

look at Matthew 17:24-27

It doesn't matter if you believe in Him or not. His Word is still truth Post. His Word is still righteous even of you believe they are
just a bunch of laws" no different than satan's "bunch of laws".

His Work's are still righteous whether you believe in Him or not. As it is written.

1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. (bunch of laws)

3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Does Matt. 17 destroy these truths? You may think so, but as it is written: Your unbelief doesn't make any of God's Word Void.

 

[Studyman]

"that one verse doesn't erase the rest of the Bible, dude" ____

The Lord is good to all, ​

and His mercy is over all that He has made!​

(Psalm 145:9) ​

​

Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ ​

For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.​

(Matthew 9:13)​

​

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. ​

(Matthew 23:23) ​

​

For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. ​

Mercy triumphs over judgment.​

(James 2:13) ​

​

Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.​

(Matthew 5:7)​

​

Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful. ​

(Luke 6:36) ​

​

He saved us, ​

not because of works done by us in righteousness, ​

but according to His own mercy​

(Titus 3:5) ​

​

With the merciful you show yourself merciful​

(2 Samuel 22:26)​

​

For He says to Moses, ​

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”​

(Romans 9:15) ​

​

Therefore, having this ministry by the mercy of God, we do not lose heart.​

(2 Corinthians 4:1) ​

​

I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.​

(Romans 12:1) ​

​

Amen, if only you believed.

 

[gb9]

Does that mean no. Your Jesus didn't say these things as the Word which became flesh?

you should not ask anyone any questions , nor expect anyone to answer any of yours until you address the Scripture you have been asked to speak on.