Not By Works

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BillG said:
Let's do it here or maybe start a new thread.
I say here because maybe a lot of people here do not know either.
Part of me thinks start a new thread so as to not detract from this one, but maybe it may replicate the opposite of this thread "Works save"

But as I said I do not know what you are trying to convey along with others.

I will leave that up to you.
Either way no one has an excuse to indulge in conversation about it.
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All I ask is that we stay focused on the facts and understandings that I'm presenting and not go into the misrepresentations and name-calling mode . It will require you to be honest with yourself .

The answer to the question you ask me is best presented by starting at the beginning of the Salvation journey , walking it together , agreeing or disagreeing as we take each step .

We may agree or disagree on somethings simply because our wording may be different , so let's cut each other some slack in that respect .

Some background .
Yes , The Father gave His Son , His Son gave His life for the sins of the world .
I understand Salvation is by Grace , through Faith .
I understand that nobody comes to Christ unless the Father draws or calls them to Him .

Without going into detail about specifics on those understandings are you in a basic agreement?

Can we start our discussion at this beginning stage where the Father is calling or drawing people to Christ ?
 
dcontroversal said:
I put his drivel on igore a while back.....incessant walls of text, no contextual value, mish mash theology and the roots coming thru!!
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Seems like a calflick.

Makes me wonder, they ridicule protestants as following or "believing in" John Calvin, yet they "believe in" a pope, bow down to him and kiss his toenails.

Okey dokey...
 
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Pisteuo said:
The words " believe , believer , and believing , "are translated from the Greek word pisteuo . Pisteuo is used 248 times in the NT .

Pisteuo is the corresponding verb to the Greek word and noun Pistis . Pistis is used 245 times in the NT .

Pistis the noun is translated into the English language with the English word " Faith" . No problem ! But when the translators needed a corresponding verb in the English , like they do in the Greek , there wasn't one . So the translators not only needed a word that would come close in meaning , but also , it had To be a single word . So they chose the words believe , believer , and believing .

Pisteuo is a verb , an act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidence . So as you can see " belief " is one third of what true pisteuo consists of . Which taken on its own is error .

He reason I said " there is no such thing as believing ," is because in the original Greek language , they don't even have a word for believing . In the Greek , there is only faithing towards God " pisteuo " , or faithing away from God , " apisteuo " . In the Greek language , they don't even recognize a state of being where someone is only " believing " or in a neutral state . Every person ever born , is continually , every day , all day , either faithing towards God , or away from God .

The Strongs gives us a hint or disclaimer as I call it , it says : " pisteuo means NOT just to believe . "

The Vines gives us the best and most specific definition of pisteuo : " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender . "

No mention of , " believing " other than it doesn't mean just believing .

So that's why I say there's no such thing as believing .
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I agree with you.
Everything you've said is correct. Problem is, everyone wants to be a Greek expert.
I'll even go a bit farther...
NOT believing means to disobey...so in that way believe also means to obey.
But try and explain that.

So I don't. Anyway, we don't really need the Greek,,,we have enough problems trying to understand the English, which was translated as best as could be.

I know what's lost in translation...but I don't worry about it. We have all we need to know and it's very simple when you get right down to it.
 
dcontroversal said:
Let me tell you a truth....I HAVE HAD REFLUX since 1988...the only thing that keeps it from happening and actually helps heal is NEXIUM....TRY IT if u have not tried it....I eat what I want and no reflux at all when on Nexium...it is the only thing that works for me
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I forget what I am on I will check.
 
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Pisteuo said:
True Obedience , only comes as the result of an offered , tested , and accepted surrendered life , thanks to the Grace or opportunity to stand before the Father cloaked with Christ .
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Did YOU EVEN read the VERSES THAT I POSTED?


1 John 5:3 (HCSB)
3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,


It is only NOT a burden, when you do it because you LOVE Him.

TOTALLY IT IS PART OF LOVE that happens after SALVATION, and NEVER HAS BEEN PART OF SALVATION.


So why do you try to Rob the LORD of the glory that solely belongs to HIM!

Is is PRIDE in YOUR ACCOMPLISHMENTS, why you CANNOT GIVE HIM THE TOTAL GLORY for YOUR SALVATION?


Romans 7:18 (HCSB)
18 For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For the desire to do what is good is with me, but there is no ability to do it.
Galatians 2:20 (HCSB)
20 and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.


IN PAUL'S LIFE, NOW DO YOU SEE THAT PRIDE OF LIFE BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU THINK YOU ACCOMPLISHED, OR THE OPPOSITE ? ? ?

Paul humbled himself, AND GAVE ALL THE CREDIT TO CHRIST?

HOW COME YOU CANNOT?
 
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dcontroversal said:
Wrong again Fran......you do realize that the above view equates Jesus to a complete and utter failure, liar and deceiver right?

What does the following words mean

Begins, finishes and completes?

In your book.....starts, cannot finish and walks away........

My bible is clear....

Jesus begins my faith
Jesus finishes my faith
JESUS COMPLETES MY FAITH

It is tragic that you worship, serve, believe in and peddle a weak, inept, lying Jesus that is not represented in scripture.....

You should be ashamed of yourself!
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How do YOU represent Jesus?
By saying that we're saved no matter what after walking down some isle?

That's a weak Jesus. The One I know is strong and expects us to walk with Him and be a disciple of His.

Jesus will do all those things you mentioned above...
Begin and complete your faith...as long as you remain with Him.
Unless you're a calvinist, you surely believe we have our free will even after salvation.
Do you?
If you do, then surely you must believe that we are free to leave His side whenever we want to.

Now, if you're saying we won't want to, I'd be inclined to agree. The only problem I have is that there are persons that say they were believers and now no longer are.

Isn't it better to preach that we should cling to our Lord?
Better to preach what HE said?
John 14:1
Believe in Jesus. Be His disciple.

And there is no tragedy in worshipping Jesus.
I think it's good to warn people that they should cling to the Savior of our soul.
Romans 11:20 states that due to unbelief a branch will be cut off.
Isn't it a good idea to say that we must continue to believe if we're to be saved?
Mathew 12:30 We must remain WITH Jesus.
 
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dcontroversal said:
I have been through them all.....tums, rolaids, gaviscon, zantac, pepcid, prilosec, prevacid, protinix etc.....NEXIUM works......the rest not so much
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Dcon,
You need to calm down.
No kidding.
You're a bundle of nerves.
One day at a time, sweet Jesus.
And don't get so upset with those that disagree with you.
We're all brothers in the Lord -- just talking.
:)
 
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VCO said:
Did YOU EVEN read the VERSES THAT I POSTED?


1 John 5:3 (HCSB)
3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,


It is only NOT a burden, when you do it because you LOVE Him.

TOTALLY IT IS PART OF LOVE that happens after SALVATION, and NEVER HAS BEEN PART OF SALVATION.


So why do you try to Rob the LORD of the glory that solely belongs to HIM!

Is is PRIDE in YOUR ACCOMPLISHMENTS, why you CANNOT GIVE HIM THE TOTAL GLORY for YOUR SALVATION?


Romans 7:18 (HCSB)
18 For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For the desire to do what is good is with me, but there is no ability to do it.
Galatians 2:20 (HCSB)
20 and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.


IN PAUL'S LIFE, NOW DO YOU SEE THAT PRIDE OF LIFE BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU THINK YOU ACCOMPLISHED, OR THE OPPOSITE ? ? ?

Paul humbled himself, AND GAVE ALL THE CREDIT TO CHRIST?

HOW COME YOU CANNOT?
Click to expand...

A Surrendered life " true pisteuo " by nature is surrendering to another, to become a slave to another , that other is Christ . That would be a response to the call of the Father , not an accomplishment .

I don't remember taking credit for anything other than fulfilling pisteuo . And fulfilling pisteuo is not all God and certainly not all me .
 
NoNameMcgee said:
there isnt one verse which speaks of the loss of salvation to someone God has saved in context😏

you may worship a god that fails or forsakes His own


i worship God
who will not lose even one of His own
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I am sorry, but scripturally that is not true. it is God's will that none be lost, but God's will is not always done on this earth. What Satan has convinced the world of is that once you accept Jesus Christ, you can live anyway you want. Respectfully, you feed this concept and so we have many, many Christians living in opposition to God. Finally, if you mean "one of His own" to mean those that God saw in advance would accept Jesus Christ and remain faithful, we can agree, otherwise not.....
 
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TruthTalk said:
Hello ReturnToGod and welcome to the forum, I love your screen name. The beginning of this verse refers to, "works of righteousness which we have done", but you say, "it say's nothing of being faithful." I believe works of righteousness, "which we have done", is saying something about the "fruit of our faithfulness."

God bless!

King James Bible: Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness "which we have done", but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
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Thank you. I agree. Did i give a different statement? True faith manifests itself. Help me out with what i said that untrue.
 
dcontroversal said:
Amen brother....I guess most have no understanding of the word irrevocable....and some cannot grasp begins, finishes and completes....or even the words never leave, never forsake and saved to the uttermost!!
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dcontroversal said:
Wrong again Fran......you do realize that the above view equates Jesus to a complete and utter failure, liar and deceiver right?

What does the following words mean

Begins, finishes and completes?

In your book.....starts, cannot finish and walks away........

My bible is clear....

Jesus begins my faith
Jesus finishes my faith
JESUS COMPLETES MY FAITH

It is tragic that you worship, serve, believe in and peddle a weak, inept, lying Jesus that is not represented in scripture.....

You should be ashamed of yourself!
Click to expand...

No this is incorrect; this is the view of PART of scripture but scripture must be taken as a whole. What does Luke 14:26 say? Please consider the whole Bible. Jesus did not deceive anyone but to understand Jesus we must look at all He taught.
 
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ReturnToGod said:
Led by the Spirit on this post?
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you certainly arent with your false understandings and doctrines of man



25 And Elijah said unto the prophets of Baal, Choose you one bullock for yourselves, and dress it first; for yeare many; and call on the name of your gods, but put no fire under.

26 And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made.

27 And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.

28 And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them.



God and His children dont appreciate your false gospel


you need to take those false understandings to Gods feet in prayer and learn of Him


i pray for the blind who can look upon His word and not learn a bit of truth
 
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mailmandan said:
Amen! Hebrews 12:7 - It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. The AMP Bible in verse 8 reads - Now if you are exempt from correction and left without discipline in which all [of God’s children] share, then you are illegitimate offspring and not true sons [at all].

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. (y)

Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. (y)
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ReturnToGod said:
Thank you. I agree. Did i give a different statement? True faith manifests itself. Help me out with what i said that untrue.
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No thank you ReturnToGod. You are already twisting my words and I do not care to have any further dialog with you, have a pleasant day.
 
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