Not By Works
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isn't it like this --
The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' (Luke 7:34)
they slanderously call us lawless because we confess the grace of God, and we rejoice in His freedom, and know that we are saved and kept by His mercy.
i am honored to bear such vitriol
I'm grateful to be saved without having to bear the law to get there.
Hi posthuman, it is good to tell the self-righteous that it is for freedom that our Savior has set us free. Now Christians everywhere have been set free to serve our heavenly Father for eternity. How foolish is the person who has been set free to say to their "jailer/the law", oh no please Mr jailer, do not set me free because I love the shackles and chains that keep me in prison.isn't it like this --
The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.'
they slanderously call us lawless because we confess the grace of God, and we rejoice in His freedom, and know that we are saved and kept by His mercy.
i am honored to bear such vitriol
When the Gospel of Grace is preached the human heart will respond and the Holy Spirit quickens the lost sinner, praise God. Freedom is the heart of the Gospel and it is for our Freedom that Jesus Christ died such a horrible death as the crucifixion. By the power of God Jesus was raise from the dead, amen!
Galatians5:11) It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. "Stand firm", then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
4)You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace.
Freedom Depends on Grace: By Pastor John Piper
"If you take upon yourself the yoke of the law and aim to use it to achieve your own righteousness before God, you have submitted to a yoke of slavery and are not standing in the freedom for which Christ freed you. Or to use the words of the verse: your relation to Christ is nullified and you no longer benefit from grace. What this verse teaches, then, is that the experience of freedom, including the freedom of eternal life, can only be enjoyed as we depend on the grace of Christ. Slavery is what happens when you fall away from the power of grace. The key to freedom is to keep depending on grace."
it is very easy to begin to think of God's free gift as a loan to be repaid or as advance wages to be earned, so that can put you in the position of a debtor instead of a son. And that is slavery. None of us feels completely free while we are burdened with a debt to be repaid. Christ does not want you to relate to him as a debtor who uses the law to make installment payments on an unending loan.
"For freedom Christ has set us free; stand fast therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery."
Galatians5:1
Amen! Romans 3:24 - being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
That’s not hard to understand. It’s just hard for works-salvationists/misguided teachers of the law to ACCEPT.
Not by Works, the thread of eternal life
and quite allegorically symbolic ...
true doctrine vs false doctrine
true doctrine is of the new nature
all the false belief is of the old nature
Galatians 5:17 - both are against each other, back and forth
the moment the Thread was born, Oncefallen have observed that the thread is "toxic" ever since the first 10 days
same for the saved, starting from "toxic" to grow more and more "sanctified" and bearing more likeliness of Christ as before was worse than now, and it will keep getting better
and quite allegorically symbolic ...
true doctrine vs false doctrine
true doctrine is of the new nature
all the false belief is of the old nature
Galatians 5:17 - both are against each other, back and forth
the moment the Thread was born, Oncefallen have observed that the thread is "toxic" ever since the first 10 days
same for the saved, starting from "toxic" to grow more and more "sanctified" and bearing more likeliness of Christ as before was worse than now, and it will keep getting better
Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law. Romans 3:27-31
If APART FROM means WITHOUT, why would Paul teach that they uphold the law? Does he not have FAITH by saying that they uphold the law? Will they not be saved for upholding the law and contradicting OSAS doctrine of "Faith ALONE saves"? Did God say or did it ever come out from His mouth that ONCE you are SAVED, you are ALWAYS SAVED through faith ALONE? Maybe I should see that from the scriptures that I may believe and trust them.
...for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty
and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel. Isaiah 5:24
...For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the SPIRIT.
What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Romans 3:3
Does not this verse of scripture mean something to you or are you so blinded by your self-righteous Cainology. The keepers of the law are so smug and self-righteous they need to go back to Sunday School and learn what the saying means, "Not By Works",
Galatians5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are "justified by the law"
ye are fallen from grace.
The apostle Paul asks, “Do we then nullify the law through faith?” in verse 31. If we are justified apart from the law, as Paul said in verse 21, is the law now nullified? In other words, he asks, “Is the law of no effect? Is the law of no good or purpose if we are justified apart from the law?” Paul heads off this wrong conclusion and says, "may it never be!" Justification by faith does not nullify the proper use of the moral aspect of the law. Justification by faith apart from the law is also not a license to sin.
The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments from the Old Testament which are reiterated in the New Testament, yet Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, which was part of a covenant with Israel and a sign between God and Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Deuteronomy 5:12-15; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on the Church in the New Testament. (Colossians 2:16-17)
We are still to have no other gods before God (Acts 14:15); We shall make no idols (1 John 5:21); We shall not take the name of the Lord our God in vain (James 5:12); We are to honor our father and our mother (Ephesians 6:1-2); We shall not murder (Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15); We shall not commit adultery (Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10); We shall not steal (Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28); We shall not bear false witness against our neighbor (Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10); We shall not covet (Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3)
Arguemore cannot help but arguemore............the bible is clear for all who have both eyes open and their ears unplugged...
GRACE or WORKS PAUL said....ONE or the OTHER...NOT BOTH or a cafe Cainologist MIX of both.........
Paul was not teaching salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works" in Romans 3:31. See my previous post.
Man is saved through faith in Christ alone "apart from the law" as Paul clearly stated in multiple passages of scripture. (Romans 3:22-28; 4:5-6; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..).
Works-salvationists usually attack OSAS or "preservation of the saints" (Psalm 37:28; Jude 1:1) and faith ALONE (Romans 5:1; Ephesians 2:8,9) because they self righteously believe that salvation is based on the merits of their performance (Romans 11:6). Israel certainly had a problem with accepting the truth (Romans 10:4).
Old Testament/Old Covenant directed at Israel.
Romans 8:8 - and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
God will fulfill all the promises that He made to Israel, even if individual Jews are not able to receive them because of their unbelief.
Paul was not teaching salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works" in Romans 3:31. See my previous post.
Man is saved through faith in Christ alone "apart from the law" as Paul clearly stated in multiple passages of scripture. (Romans 3:22-28; 4:5-6; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..).
Works-salvationists usually attack OSAS or "preservation of the saints" (Psalm 37:28; Jude 1:1) and faith ALONE (Romans 5:1; Ephesians 2:8,9) because they self righteously believe that salvation is based on the merits of their performance (Romans 11:6). Israel certainly had a problem with accepting the truth (Romans 10:4).
Old Testament/Old Covenant directed at Israel.
Romans 8:8 - and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
God will fulfill all the promises that He made to Israel, even if individual Jews are not able to receive them because of their unbelief.
Did God say or did it ever come out from His mouth that ONCE you are SAVED, you are ALWAYS SAVED through faith ALONE? Maybe I should see that from the scriptures that I may believe and trust them.
this is bigger than 'speak your mind' -- and in shorter time
amazing that people come to argue, though the scripture quite explicitly says, "not by works" and says so much more than once!
Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another;
for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law
(Romans 13:8)
♥
to love one another - a debt never marked 'paid'
how does Paul speak so strongly in Galatians against circumcision and so clearly to this church to stand firm & reject the yoke of the law, and affirm that we uphold the law?
it is no contradiction. it is perfect. we must understand what salvation is. i strongly suggest dwelling in Romans 6,7,8 -- swim in it.
"buy the truth, and do not sell it"
Some believers of this age CLAIM to know God but BY THEIR ACTIONS THEY DENY HIM.(Titus 1:16)
...WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE COME TO KNOW HIM IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.1 John 2:3-6
I know that you agree with VCO when he says that obedience is not part of salvation but of love.You also believe that obedience BEING A PART LOVE CANNOT SAVE. I would agree that obedience without faith cannot SAVE in the same way that FAITH without the works of obedience to God cannot SAVE. Christ died so that we may receive the promised Holy Spirit to help, counsel and guide or lead us. The Holy Spirit will never counsel or lead us to disobey God, it is the work of the deceiver.
LOVE is WALKING in obedience to His commands. ( 2 john 1:6) LOVE IS laying down our lives for our brothers as Jesus did and it is the fulfillment of the law (Romans 13:10) that Jesus, when asked by the rich young man on how to get eternal life replied by saying that he has to obey the commandments. It is the same love that was poured into our hearts, (Romans 5:5) the commandments placed and written in our hearts and minds where the Father and the Son dwells and reigns thru the Holy Spirit we have received thru FAITH. (hebrews 10:16, john 14:15-24,galatians 3:14) It is the same LOVE that God have shown us when He gave us His only begotten Son (john 3:16) in fulfillment of all that was written about our LORD and Savior Jesus Christ in the books of the prophets and the law for the glory of God the Father and unto our salvation.
...What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge. Romans 3:3-4
...For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. Galatians 5:6
...If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing... And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. 1 Corinthians 13:2,13
Does Faith ALONE saves? May God who is LOVE (1 john 4:8-16) make it clear to you.
Our LORD Jesus Christ is the author of salvation for those who OBEY Him. (hebrews 5:7-9) and we obey Him because we love Him and we have FAITH in Him as our LORD and SAVIOR who reconciled us to the Father
… It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice, Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you. This is a sign to them that they will be destroyed, but that you will be saved—and that by God. For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE on him, but also to suffer for him, Philippians 1:15-18,27-29
...WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE COME TO KNOW HIM IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.1 John 2:3-6
I know that you agree with VCO when he says that obedience is not part of salvation but of love.You also believe that obedience BEING A PART LOVE CANNOT SAVE. I would agree that obedience without faith cannot SAVE in the same way that FAITH without the works of obedience to God cannot SAVE. Christ died so that we may receive the promised Holy Spirit to help, counsel and guide or lead us. The Holy Spirit will never counsel or lead us to disobey God, it is the work of the deceiver.
LOVE is WALKING in obedience to His commands. ( 2 john 1:6) LOVE IS laying down our lives for our brothers as Jesus did and it is the fulfillment of the law (Romans 13:10) that Jesus, when asked by the rich young man on how to get eternal life replied by saying that he has to obey the commandments. It is the same love that was poured into our hearts, (Romans 5:5) the commandments placed and written in our hearts and minds where the Father and the Son dwells and reigns thru the Holy Spirit we have received thru FAITH. (hebrews 10:16, john 14:15-24,galatians 3:14) It is the same LOVE that God have shown us when He gave us His only begotten Son (john 3:16) in fulfillment of all that was written about our LORD and Savior Jesus Christ in the books of the prophets and the law for the glory of God the Father and unto our salvation.
...What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge. Romans 3:3-4
...For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. Galatians 5:6
...If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing... And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. 1 Corinthians 13:2,13
Does Faith ALONE saves? May God who is LOVE (1 john 4:8-16) make it clear to you.
Our LORD Jesus Christ is the author of salvation for those who OBEY Him. (hebrews 5:7-9) and we obey Him because we love Him and we have FAITH in Him as our LORD and SAVIOR who reconciled us to the Father
… It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice, Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you. This is a sign to them that they will be destroyed, but that you will be saved—and that by God. For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE on him, but also to suffer for him, Philippians 1:15-18,27-29
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matthew 28:18-20
Did Jesus say in that passage that ONCE you are SAVED, you are ALWAYS SAVED through faith ALONE?
Only every place one looks in context while be honest with the verbiage and Greek verb tense.....but HEY.....I am sure RELIGION knows best..........geesh!
You know where to find it, right? Then show me where I can find OSAS in the bible. Where is "Once Saved ALWAYS SAVED" in the bible? What book, chapter and verse does it say exactly that ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED. Thank you very much and I hope to read them in the morning coz it's time for bed for me now.