J
J70x7
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1 Timothy 6:18
To do good, to be rich in good works, to give easily, to communicate to others.
To do good, to be rich in good works, to give easily, to communicate to others.
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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J
J70x7
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Titus 2:7
In all things shew thyself an example of good works, in doctrine, in integrity, in gravity.
In all things shew thyself an example of good works, in doctrine, in integrity, in gravity.
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law;
rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
(Romans 3:20)
read the whole book.
is he only talking about 'Levitical priesthood regulations' here? as our favorite false accuser & scripture perverter says?
are we supposed to smash the law into pieces with our theology?
What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."
(Romans 7:7)
nope.
'the law' means 'the law'
who will save you from this body of death?
how?
by doing the things in the law, you will have life?
read the whole book, please.
or go back to your flat earth thread.
J
J70x7
Guest
Tutus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and might cleanse to himself a people acceptable, a pursuer of good works.
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and might cleanse to himself a people acceptable, a pursuer of good works.
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Eph 2:10
Eph 2:10
Your words.
"dude, the teaching that when the Spirit who breathed all scripture says "the law" what it *really means to say* is 'selected portions of the law but not all of it' is not a Biblical fact."
According to Paul's Word's that I posted, There are two distinct Laws mentioned in the New Testament. Just because you refuse to "believe" doesn't make it not true. There is a "Law of Works" and a "Law of Faith" as Paul points out. This is Paul's Spirit breathed Words, not my words. The Jews were "bewitching" the Galatians with their version of the "law of Works" as it is written.
You reject this truth, and accuse me of not believing the Word of God which became Flesh. Typical.
You preach Paul is speaking to "ALL" of God's Laws as your words expose. That I am to believe the Jews who didn't believe in the Christ were trying to bewitch the Galatians into "loving their Neighbor as their self" or some such nonsense. This "belief" has corrupted your understanding of God's Word. I am showing you where Paul acknowledges the difference between the "Law of Works" which were performed by the Levite Priests for the remission of sins, and the "Law of Faith" which the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time "omitted" from their religion and were rejected by the Christ but that Abraham followed and was accepted by the Christ..
Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Having "Faith" in God is a requirement of the Law. The first and greatest commandment as my Lord instructs. Your unbelief in this truth doesn't make this truth void.
Matt. 19:
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which?
Why would this Jew ask which laws to keep for acceptance into the kingdom of heaven? Because as Paul teaches, there are two Laws, one "ADDED" because of transgression of the other "Until the Seed should come". Your unbelief doesn't make this truth void.
Gal. 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, (Of what?) till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
So which Law did Jesus respond with? Does He agree with your religion and say "You don't need to obey My Father, just believe in some religions version of me?". No, that's mainstream religious traditions, not God's Word. Did He say to go find a Levite Priest and buy a turtle dove? No, He is now the High Priest, and man is no longer justified by "works of the law" given to Levites for the remission of sins.
No Post. He said the same thing He has always said from the beginning to the end. "but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."
The Same Paul said many times.
Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. (which law? the Law of Faith, or the Law of Works?)
1 Cor. 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
The Same thing Peter says.
Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
These are Spirit Breathed Word's of God that "Many" who call Him Lord, Lord reject. I don't.
I believe in the Christ of the Bible.
If one reads Romans 2:6 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, as you read and study these passages, it’s critical to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved conduct their lives. These works done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving salvation. So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.
Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath.
Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means by which we receive eternal life, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not.
These good deeds done out of faith are the fruit, not the root of salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. *Also see (Romans 3:22-28; 4:4-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).
Romans 3:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
What is so hard to understand about this verse? Works will not get us into heaven. Are we to do good works? Yes. Why? Because we are to serve the Lord and be His vessel on earth.
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
What is so hard to understand about this verse? Works will not get us into heaven. Are we to do good works? Yes. Why? Because we are to serve the Lord and be His vessel on earth.
Ok Post. What are the "works of the Law" that no man is declared righteous by following?
It is "thou shall Love the Lord thy God with all thy might and with all thy soul"? Can I reject this "LAW" and still be considered Righteous by the Christ?
Or maybe "Thou shall love thy neighbor as thy self"? Can I also reject this Law and still be considered Righteous by the Christ?
Law means law!!!
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.What are the "Deeds" of the Law here Post? Why don't you tell us what the "DEEDS" of the Law were which justified sin in the Law and Prophets. Did "Thou shall not kill" justify sin? Was this a "DEED" of the Law "ADDED" "Till the Seed should come"?
You call me a preventer of the scriptures. I am asking you to show me the truth. No deflection this time. What were the "DEEDS" of the Law given by Moses to justify sin?
Does Paul say by the "DEEDS" of the Law is the knowledge of sin or does he say by the "DEEDS" of the Law is no flesh justified?
Since you are the judge and I am a preventer of scriptures, show me.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Where in the Law and Prophets did this happen Mr. Judge. You are a self proclaimed immortal. Surely you can answer this question. When did the Righteousness of God exist without a single instruction or Law from God?
" Law means Law"
Show me a single scripture in the Bible where God didn't have instruction. Just one.
Of course you won't answer.
The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.
How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?
We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.
Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?
...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:10-14, 24
...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15
...And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.
Ephesians 5:6-7
...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”...
Genesis 3:1-19
Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.
The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God.
So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?
How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?
We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.
Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?
...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:10-14, 24
...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15
...And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.
Ephesians 5:6-7
...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”...
Genesis 3:1-19
Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.
The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God.
So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?
J
J70x7
Guest
J
J70x7
Guest
Hebrews 10:24
And let us consider one another, to PROVOKE unto CHARITY and to GOOD WORKS:
And let us consider one another, to PROVOKE unto CHARITY and to GOOD WORKS:
Adam and Eve did not have to believe. They already knew God.
Genesis 3:8-9
8 And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden.
9 Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?”
Am I right in assuming that you believe that Adam & Eve were not saved because they disobeyed the one thing that God told them not to?
Or were they obedient after being thrown out of the garden to earn salvation?
What obedience are we talking about here that determines salvation?
Is it works or is it faith?
If works had a bearing on salvation then surely Jesus would not have to die on the cross.
But we know the minute that Adam & Eve sinned the plan of redemption and salvation was declared by God, set in place before they disobeyed.
What was this plan?
John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jesus said
John 6:29
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
We didn't know God like Adam & Eve did. They had nothing to believe in.
They already knew God.
Hence the plan set before they disobeyed.
Jesus said
John 20:29
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Obedience has no bearing on salvation.
Faith and belief in Jesus is our salvation which if is genuine has an outworking of obedience to let our light shine, to be like him to glorify him.
No one is reading Romans 2:6 in isolation from the rest of the Bible.
Paul is saying only those things which were taught by God from the very beginning.
Rom. 2:
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing (Defined by the creator of righteousness) seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
This is the Gospel message of the Christ since He spoke to Cain.
Gen. 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
You are preaching that immortality comes first, then repentance and works worthy of repentance. This is simply a religious falsehood, an insidious lie that we have been warned against over and over. I hope the readers can see the trickery in this sentence.
Why didn't these also receive eternal life without any works like the others? Did they get the short straw? Why didn't God grant them grace with no works, but granted the others Grace with no works? One group was saved without repentance, and the other group was rejected without repentance. And you omit an important Biblical fact.
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
This scripture exposes your religion.
What comes first in God's Word? Repentance or the gift of immortality? The Word of God says one thing, you and your friends preach another. Like Peter declared; "We ought to obey God rather than man".
Remember the very first example of deception our Lord gives us in Gen. 3.. Notice that first satan uses God's Word to deceive. Not all of it, just enough to trick us. The next thing satan did was convince Eve she was already immortal, already saved. Then the last part was to convince Eve that God's Instructions are against her and that she can only "SEE" and be "FREE" if she rejects them.
You folks reading along. Do the work yourself in obedience to what you can understand. Humble yourself under the mighty hand of God because He gives Grace to the Humble. He doesn't give His Grace to everyone. This is a Biblical Fact. Just because someone says "Lord, Lord, doesn't make them His.
Satan deceives through religions which call the Christ Lord, Lord. Put on the "Whole" armor of God. Listen to the Christ. "Man shall LIVE by EVERY WORD of GOD".
2 Tim. 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. (Lawlessness)
Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Lawlessness)
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
And finally the Word's of Paul to confirm the Christ's teaching.
Acts 26:
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent (first) and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Your preaching that immortality comes before "DOING" these things is a falsehood MMD. You have been shown many times now. I can only assume you know, and are teaching the religious falsehoods anyway.
On that deceivng by the devil ....Satan is bound from deceiving the ELECT but not the rest.
Matt 24........that the deceptions would be so powerful that they would deceive even the ELECT >>>>>IF THAT WERE POSSIBLE.
That big IF there shows it will not be possbile.
Matt 24........that the deceptions would be so powerful that they would deceive even the ELECT >>>>>IF THAT WERE POSSIBLE.
That big IF there shows it will not be possbile.
AMEN........the simplicity found in Christ........over complicated and embellished beyond having power by many.......Salvation that is......and how one attains it...!
In Matthew 24:24, as Greek scholar AT Robertson points out - These charlatans will be so skilful that they will, if possible (ei dunaton), lead astray the very elect. The implication is that it is not possible. - https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/matthew/matthew-24-24.html