Not By Works

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posthuman said:
Romans & Galatians are easy to read? :rolleyes:
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Your right! :eek: may we not take the Holy Spirit for granted, the Holy Spirit does help us understand the bible

or else, it's "spiritually discerned"

anytime we understand the bible, thank the Holy Spirit
God really love us :giggle:
 
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posthuman said:
​
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in Him, who is the head of all rule and authority. ​
(Colossians 2:8-10)​
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is it weird that kenosis-preaching-dude hit 'like' on this verse, seeing that God explicitly tells us here the fullness of deity dwells bodily in Christ ?
 
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VCO said:
You KNOW what I was talking about. Those us WHO absolutely believe in OSAS, the true Theology of SECURITY IN CHRIST; and those from the opposite side of the FENCE, who falsely belief you are not saved until the end of life.

If the Shoe FITS, wear it.
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I do believe we're all on the same side of the fence and the unsaved are on the other side.
I mean, after all, how many sides does a fence have?

One is either saved or not.
Then we could discuss doctrine.

Just dropped by to see what's going on...
Be back in a couple of weeks...

Don't miss me too much!!
:)
 
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posthuman said:
btw,



i think it's hilarious how you aver that God cannot die but you have no compunction regarding God not actually being God
what does the Bible say about whether God is ever not God?

Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God​
(Isaiah 40:28) ​

the same yesterday, today, and forever :)
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Well Posthuman, I'm surprised at you....
Didn't you know that Jesus was 100% human and 100% God?
Looks like @Studyman is right once again.
 
Ariel82 said:
No not all who claim the name Christians are born again believers redeemed by the blood of Christ and lead by His Holy Spirit.
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I said one side is for the SAVED
and the other side of the fence is for the UNSAVED.
I did not mention those who think they're saved but are not.

It's not for US to decide who is saved and who isn't...
We might have some surprises when we get to heaven.
 
VCO said:
I did not get to Church today, because I left for Church, and the police had EVERY STREET blocked on Normal Street for a massive MARATHON. I MEAN RUNNERS AS FAR as an eye can see. I live on the south side of Normal, and my church is on the north side of Normal. I do not like to be late, so I came and watched a recent video of a Sunday evening Service, I had not seen before.

That Video is Dr. Gil Rugh, confronting a New Heresy, of ADDING TO THE GOSPEL. These are Evangelical Theologians, who have Added to the Gospel, inserting also Social Responsibility, making it a FALSE GOSPEL. They say the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ is a two legged Gospel, one is the Traditional Gospel, and the Second Leg is our Social Responsibility.

ANY TIME YOU ADD ANY THING TO THE GOSPEL, you have effectively Created a False Gospel.

Here is that video, if you want to see it:

https://ihcc.org/Resources/GilRughMessages#


TOP SERMON. Dated Oct. 21, 2018
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i wanted to say thank you - i downloaded this and listened on my commute yesterday; i enjoyed it. he sounds like he engages in some amount of 'teaching' whereas in my experience most sermons consist only of 'preaching' - i appreciate that. :)

it reminded me of the 'apostolic movement' which i know is actively engaged in trying to influence secular politics, even to become empowered and elected in them, with a sort of 'spiritual manifest destiny' philosophy, thinking what they consider the church should control the nation. these are the people whose leadership think and declare themselves to be modern apostles, equal in authority to the 12.
 
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benhur said:
Jesus is only going to be faithful to those that are faithful to him. Those that come to believe in him through the Holy Spirit, those who have faith in him, and are faithful to him in doing those things that have before been ordained for them to do.

Jesus says that those that believe in me will be saved, that is true. Those that really believe will be faithful to him and do those thngs that have before been ordained for them to do. Fake believers will not be about Jesus's works. So doing good works is the sign that you are really saved.

Everyone can say they believe, and fake that. But those that are not willing to engage in the work of the Lord, expose their real selves. They are not really saved.
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Who are you to judge? Only God knows what is going on in a person's life.

Before Moses was called to lead the people out of Eygpt, he was known as a murderer and spent 40 years in the desert married to a daughter of a false priest to another good. He didn't even have his sons circumcised.

If you judged Moses at that point in his life, you and others who make themselves judges would have condemned him.

Yet God called him from the desert and made a murderer the savior and spokesperson to His people.

You see this happen again in the New testament with Saul later turned Paul.

Judging people by their fruits sounds righteous but it's nit God's way, it's the world's wisdom.
 
dcontroversal said:
Such are the ways of the spiritually confused and those who lack even a basic knowledge of the truth......
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understanding that he believes God stopped being God explains why he is trying to teach us that God grafted God into God. because he thinks God wasn't God anymore at that time ((i.e. Jesus, who says "I AM the Root" was grafted into the root? wut?))

;)

it's a mess, but it's not without its logic. not sure which button was first to be misaligned tho
 
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GodsGrace101 said:
I said one side is for the SAVED
and the other side of the fence is for the UNSAVED.
I did not mention those who think they're saved but are not.

It's not for US to decide who is saved and who isn't...
We might have some surprises when we get to heaven.
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Two things about the bolded Fran.....you excelled in using the word WE, which describes you as well.....and you are correct in referencing "surprises when we get to heaven".......

The plenteous in NUMBER believe...

a. They know the LORD
b. They fully expect to enter based upon their works
c. The fact that they claim the LORD as LORD speaks factually that the group is made up of so called Christians
d. Their dogma involved WORKS as part of the equation to enter
e. We can deduce the following....

They call JESUS Lord (faith) and they EMBELLISH WITH WORKS

Looks like the scriptures are correct again....FAITH plus WORKS for or to supposedly KEEP = NO POWER to save!
 
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posthuman said:
understanding that he believes God stopped being God explains why he is trying to teach us that God grafted God into God. because he thinks God wasn't God anymore at that time ((i.e. Jesus, who says "I AM the Root" was grafted into the root? wut?))

;)

it's a mess, but it's not without its logic. not sure which button was first to be misaligned tho
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He is confused and erroneous on many things and if the root is corrupt........!
 
dcontroversal said:
Two things about the bolded Fran.....you excelled in using the word WE, which describes you as well.....and you are correct in referencing "surprises when we get to heaven".......

The plenteous in NUMBER believe...

a. They know the LORD
b. They fully expect to enter based upon their works
c. The fact that they claim the LORD as LORD speaks factually that the group is made up of so called Christians
d. Their dogma involved WORKS as part of the equation to enter
e. We can deduce the following....

They call JESUS Lord (faith) and they EMBELLISH WITH WORKS

Looks like the scriptures are correct again....FAITH plus WORKS for or to supposedly KEEP = NO POWER to save!
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Hey D,
Nice to see you every now and then...
Here are my answers...

a. Those that think they know the Lord but do not, will not be saved.
b. Of KNOWLEDGEABLE Christians, I don't know any that believe their works save them...however I do know some that are working their tails off BUT I truly believe they are still saved based on their faith in Jesus.
c. I don't really understand what you mean by this.
d. Works are good after salvation. Jesus spoke about them all the time... so did the other writers.
e. We're required to do good works after salvation. Why are you so afraid of works???

You know the bible inside-out, I'm not posting any scripture,,,but you know what John 14 says...
Jesus said to keep His commandments - that must mean there are commandments to keep!

Nuff said.
 
GodsGrace101 said:
Hey D,
Nice to see you every now and then...
Here are my answers...

a. Those that think they know the Lord but do not, will not be saved.
b. Of KNOWLEDGEABLE Christians, I don't know any that believe their works save them...however I do know some that are working their tails off BUT I truly believe they are still saved based on their faith in Jesus.
c. I don't really understand what you mean by this.
d. Works are good after salvation. Jesus spoke about them all the time... so did the other writers.
e. We're required to do good works after salvation. Why are you so afraid of works???

You know the bible inside-out, I'm not posting any scripture,,,but you know what John 14 says...
Jesus said to keep His commandments - that must mean there are commandments to keep!

Nuff said.
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of course we are supposed to obey. but obey what?

not the Torah, that was for the Jews only. we are to obey the Words in Red. of course, much of the Law of Moses was repeated , except for one. guess which one? i'll give you a hint- not only did Jesus not command it, nor Paul, nor Peter, nor John, nor James...…….
 
50c1al1 said:
Works?....physically doing "good deeds"? I can worship the devil and accomplish this.
How can feeding the poor glorify God to someone when they are not aware of your faith? Are we not only following commandments? Is it not our duty to do good to all that lives?
Good works are justified to be "good" only by God, for it is God alone who justifies and condemns.
Are we not justified by our God givevn faith? Isn't our every action fueled by our hearts desires?
If we do physical actions to obtain righteousness then the death of Christ was not the finished work of God for our salvation.
Our "deeds" can only be righteous and good by faith in Christ out of a God given divine love because he first loved us, and to me that means that if he loves me and has the power to entirely save my soul period then he will. It is God alone who justified us through the blood of Christ.
So it's our faith in Christ that justifies us. When christ was asked what shall we do to do the works of God he replied "believe on he whom he sent."
Believe what? That he was god? That he was sent to teach a few more spiritually edifying things in parables then be slaughtered only to leave the father looking down biting his nails hoping enough of the evil people will believe to justify the slaughter of hid son? Well, that's not the god I worship.
The God I worship made many promises that I believe through the spirit of truth. He promised his sons and daughters redemptionand eternal life through christ, and christ alone. It's not christ plus whatever you add, no Christ alone.
So if you don't believe that christ is the 100% full redemption for the children of God, and more needs to be accomplished to complete it, then you do not really know or believe in the christ who the father sent. BEHOLD! THE LAMB OF GOD WHO TAKETH AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD (but only if this or that happens to conspire or be completed by a creation that holds the uncircumcised heart which "is evil above all things")
You can only love and believe in the truth by it being revealed by the Spirit of truth, which will cause you to proclaim with your mouth Jesus is the king of kings and kord of lords and he holds that position with awesomeness because you believe in your heart through the spirit that there is no shadow of doubt that God raised him from the dead for the salvation of my filthy, filthy soul, and I love him and am very grateful and humbled for and by that.
ONLY WHEN ONE LIES FALLEN IN THE DUST IN COMPLETE HUMILITY CAN THEY SEE CLEARLY THAT THE FALLEN STATE OF MANKIND IS NOT PRIMARILY IN NEED OF AN EXAMPLE, BUT A SAVIOR.
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As I have mentioned NUMEROUS times on this Thread, OBEDIENCE is PART OF LOVE, particularly the LOVE GOD poured into our Hearts, Rom. 5:5; it has has NEVER been part of SALVATION that happens the MOMENT we genuinely BELIEVE.

HERE IS PROOF THAT IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN PART OF LOVE.

1 John 3:14-19 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
16 This is how we have come to know love: He laid down His life for us. We should also lay down our lives for our brothers.
17 If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋
—how can God’s love reside in him?
18 Little children, we must not love with word or speech, but with truth and action.
19 This is how we will know we belong to the truth and will convince our conscience in His presence,
 
If you are "walking/treading on eggshells", you are trying very hard not to upset someone. It means you are doing something very carefully without offending someone or drawing unnecessary attention. ~from google search on the idiom "walking on eggshells"

we are saved by grace, not by works

--> that means, we can come to God boldly to his throne, without "walking on eggshells" or "trying very hard by human effort not to upset God" (who loves and forgives you, but patiently guides you as well)
 
GodsGrace101 said:
Hey D,
Nice to see you every now and then...
Here are my answers...

a. Those that think they know the Lord but do not, will not be saved.
b. Of KNOWLEDGEABLE Christians, I don't know any that believe their works save them...however I do know some that are working their tails off BUT I truly believe they are still saved based on their faith in Jesus.
c. I don't really understand what you mean by this.
d. Works are good after salvation. Jesus spoke about them all the time... so did the other writers.
e. We're required to do good works after salvation. Why are you so afraid of works???

You know the bible inside-out, I'm not posting any scripture,,,but you know what John 14 says...
Jesus said to keep His commandments - that must mean there are commandments to keep!

Nuff said.
Click to expand...

I am not afraid of works, I just KNOW that they have no bearing on the eternal salvation that I already possess by faith other than REWARD (misthos) pay or wages rendered for service rendered.....and JESUS was born, lived and died under the law which RATIFIED the NEW Covenant....why are you afraid to admit this fact and or apply this truth when examining the words of Christ.....

c---> The fact they call JESUS LORD identifies them ALL as people who were identified with Christianity in some form or fashion.....I.E. MEMBERS of so called Christian churches....or in the very minimum identified as BELIEVERS........

What is the core of their problem and why are they being cast into lake of fire....let us HONESTLY and deductively reason....

A. THEY claim JESUS as LORD.....they call HIM LORD twice...
B. THEY have done MANY wonderful works in the NAME of JESUS
C. THEY fully expect to enter the kingdom of GOD based upon A and B......

I can rightfully conclude that this grouping called MANY which is PLENTEOUS in NUMBER is a group of SO called believes that have made a claim of FAITH and have DONE many wonderful works in the name of JESUS as ALMOST ALL of so called CHRISTIAN religions do...

I can also deduce correctly that the root of their PROBLEM and LOST state MUST go to the core of the GOSPEL they believed IN based upon a few biblical facts.....

A. THERE is but ONE correct message of salvation that leads to a man or woman being saved
B. BASED upon A, I can conclude since these SO called BELIEVERS are being CAST, the gospel they placed trust into was FALSE and did not equate to SALVATION

At the end of the day their gospel can be boiled down to faith plus works to gain entrance into the kingdom of GOD.......the bible is REPLETE with verses that STATES clearly that it is NOT by works of righteousness which we have done or...NOT of works...or EITHER GRACE or WORKS but not both.....

FAITH PLUS WORKS to GAIN or MAINTAIN entrance into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is a LOSING BET with eternal consequence Fran.....
 
GodsGrace101 said:
I do believe we're all on the same side of the fence and the unsaved are on the other side.
I mean, after all, how many sides does a fence have?

One is either saved or not.
Then we could discuss doctrine.

Just dropped by to see what's going on...
Be back in a couple of weeks...

Don't miss me too much!!
:)
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NO, only Born Again Christians are Saved.

YOUR THEOLOGY IS FLAWED.

In the Parable of the Gates, THERE ARE NOBODY MENTIONED THAT DOES NOT THINK HE IS A CHRISTIAN. But the MANY entered the Wrong Gate, on the WIDE EASY ROAD, which ONLY knows about Jesus, the same kind of Faith that Demons have. They were DECEIVED with False Doctrine and a False Gospel, into going through the WRONG GATE, and that Road Leads to Hades/HELL. WHY?

Because they only knew ABOUT HIM, and THEY DID NOT REALLY KNOW HIM INTIMATELY AND PERSONALLY!


Matthew 7:13-23 (HCSB)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
15 “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
16 You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
17 In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
18 A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’


That is a Specific Reference to the BORN AGAIN ☝ relationship to JESUS CHRIST, when the Holy Spirit Births your dead human spirit into ETERNAL LIFE, and HE WILL NEVER LEAVE US.


JUST LIKE THERE IS A RIGHT GATE AND A WRONG GATE; SO IS THERE A RIGHT SIDE OF THE FENCE AND A WRONG SIDE OF THE FENCE.
 
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