Not By Works

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Magenta said:
Jesus knew. And it is recorded in Scripture that He knew. He called Judas unclean. He called him the son of perdition. That means Judas was doomed to destruction. If you believe Judas was saved at one time, then he lost his salvation, whereas Jesus says He will lose none of those who are given to Him.

John 6:64 "But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.
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Yes..n it said many desciples chose not to follow after that but the 12 remained (refering to john 13)..

But like truthtalk? Said ..you cant betray someone you were never "in" to begin with..
 
Jewel5712 said:
Yes..n it said many desciples chose not to follow after that but the 12 remained (refering to john 13)..

But like truthtalk? Said ..you cant betray someone you were never "in" to begin with..
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Judas was a follower, and was sent out with the others, but he was never a true believer, and he DID betray Jesus. To say otherwise just seems so wrong. He was one of the disciples and he betrayed Jesus to the religious authorities, knowing their intentions. Your reasoning is faulty. Jesus knew from the beginning who would betray Him! Jesus asked him, "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?"
 
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Magenta said:
Judas was a follower, and was sent out with the others, but he was never a true believer, and he DID betray Jesus. To say otherwise just seems so wrong. He was one of the disciples and he betrayed Jesus to the religious authorities, knowing their intentions. Your reasoning is faulty. Jesus knew from the beginning who would betray Him! Jesus asked him, "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?"
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Judus betrayed..peter denied..thomas doubted..whos sin is worse? Jesus loved them all..dispite themselves and His blood covered them all..
 
Jewel5712 said:
Judus betrayed..peter denied..thomas doubted..whos sin is worse? Jesus loved them all..dispite themselves and His blood covered them all..
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Among the apostles and followers, only Judas is called a son of perdition, doomed to destruction. The term is used and applied only one other time in all of Scripture: to the anti-Christ. To say Judas was ever a true believer is to say one can lose their salvation.
 
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Magenta said:
Among the apostles and followers, only Judas is called a son of perdition, doomed to destruction. The term is used and applied only one other time in all of Scripture: to the anti-Christ. To say Judas was ever a true believer is to say one can lose their salvation.
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Not lose your salvation but be tempted n walk away from Christ? Absolutely! Judas was caught up by greed... But he also felt great remorse..
 
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calibob said:
Ben hur's been gone 2 1/2 hrs. Why still quarreling? The spirit of confusion has done his job maybe?
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Why call it quarrelling to settle an issue? It is an important point. Judas was never saved. He was not at any time a true believer. Jesus knew from the beginning who did not believe, and who would betray Him. Saying we cannot know when the very words of Jesus attest otherwise completely misses the mark.
 
Magenta said:
So when Jesus says Judas was doomed to destruction, He did not mean it?
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Judas was..im not denying that but "doomed to distruction"..heck..anything bad in our lives make us a risk "doomed to distructiom"..excessive drinking..eating..etc
And obviously jesus was right..judas behaviour lead him to distruction...we can apply that to our lives today as well..does it mean we arent saved? MANY people have distrucyive behaviour
 
Magenta said:
Why call it quarrelling to settle an issue? It is an important point. Judas was never saved. He was not at any time a true believer. Jesus knew from the beginning who did not believe, and who would betray Him. Saying we cannot know when the very words of Jesus attest otherwise completely misses the mark.
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Simple really, if we believe once saved always saved and Judas went to hell then by default Judas was never saved.
 
calibob said:
Simple really, if we believe once saved always saved and Judas went to hell then by default Judas was never saved.
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Exactly. And yet there are those here who say Judas did at one time believe. They cannot have it both ways, saying on the one hand you cannot lose your salvation, but Judas believed and was still doomed to destruction for betraying Jesus. Scripture is clear on this point and there should be no confusion about it. Judas was never a true believer in Jesus Christ, even though he was one of the 12.
 
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Judas is Satan's son . . . incarnate as Judas ("one of you is a devil") and will return during the tribulation as the Antichrist (the beast). He committed suicide as Judas and 'went to his own place" and at the end of the tribulation he will return to his place, the lake of fire.

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever" (Revelation 20:10).
 
Magenta said:
Exactly. And yet there are those here who say Judas did at one time believe. They cannot have it both ways, saying on the one hand you cannot lose your salvation, but Judas believed and was still doomed to destruction for betraying Jesus. Scripture is clear on this point and there should be no confusion about it. Judas was never a true believer in Jesus, even though he was one of the 12.
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Like i said..truthtalk posted scripture and i hope you had a chance to read that post..otherwise we're going to have to agree to disagree...God judges hearts and like the thief on the cross..no one knows judas heart before His death other than he felt remorse for his actions toward Jesus..
 
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
Judas is Satan's son . . . incarnate as Judas ("one of you is a devil") and will return during the tribulation as the Antichrist (the beast). He committed suicide as Judas and 'went to his own place" and at the end of the tribulation he will return to his place, the lake of fire.

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever" (Revelation 20:10).
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Hmmmm..reincarnation or rising from the dead to come back as someone different? Kinda extreme..
 
Jewel5712 said:
Like i said..truthtalk posted scripture and i hope you had a chance to read that post..otherwise we're going to have to agree to disagree...God judges hearts and like the thief on the cross..no one knows judas heart before His death other than he felt remorse for his actions toward Jesus..
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You are denying the very words of Jesus.
 
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