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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Yeah whatever, have a nice life. Will pray for you
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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What do you mean STUNG ME ? ? ? I am at Peace with GOD, with my understanding of HIS WORD. I do not care what you believe, I will post a rebuttal of False Doctine, not for you, but for the reader that are new in the faith, so that you and your false doctrine do not sway them away from the TRUTH. Just so you know, SINCERE LOVE, does not focus on SELF, but rather the LORD, and in others. My Salvation is and always will be SECURE IN CHRIST. And like it says "if I am without love, it will do me no good whatever. " And I have quoted Rom. 5:5 to you often enough, you know that GOD's LOVE in our Hearts, produces or spawns the Same kind of LOVE in us.
="VCO, post: 3705349, member: 178202"]What do you mean STUNG ME ? ? ? I am at Peace with GOD, with my understanding of HIS WORD. I do not care what you believe, I will post a rebuttal of False Doctine, not for you, but for the reader that are new in the faith, so that you and your false doctrine do not sway them away from the TRUTH. Just so you know, SINCERE LOVE, does not focus on SELF, but rather the LORD, and in others. My Salvation is and always will be SECURE IN CHRIST.
Why would you pray for me when you aren't civil speaking to me? And in a discussion about God's words no less.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I tried to discuss, you refused to look at what i posted, then blamed me,
I do not play games.
Have you noticed those with a False Doctrine to push, and some with a False Gospel, are getting more and more desperate to get someone to believe their False Doctrine or False Gospel. I think it is a sign of the times:
2 Timothy 3:5-7 (NJB)
5 They will keep up the outward appearance of religion but will have rejected the inner power of it. Keep away from people like that.
6 Of the same kind, too, are those men who insinuate themselves into families in order to get influence over silly women who are obsessed with their sins and follow one craze after another,
7 always seeking learning, but unable ever to come to knowledge of the truth.
2 Timothy 4:3-4 (HCSB)
3 For the time will come when they will not tolerate sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, will multiply teachers for themselves because they have an itch to hear something new.
4 They will turn away from hearing the truth and will turn aside to myths.
Acts 20:29-32 (HCSB)
29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 And men will rise up from your own number with deviant doctrines to lure the disciples into following them.
31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for three years I did not stop warning each one of you with tears.
32 “And now I commit you to God and to the message of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you an inheritance among all who are sanctified.
Everyone that truly defends the Gospel of Grace, keep defending the True Gospel, and I suspect it will not be long until we are on the way UP!
Thanks bro....May God bless your trip to Australia, I'm praying Jesus will take you there safe and bring you home safe. Happy Landings migo....
Make no mistake...not only am I not ashamed, what I said is truth, God approved and scriptural....man you have a lot to learn!!
Amen....for about 3 days as they are 15 hours ahead of us and I have to aclimatize to their time frame....here by the way...long flight!
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Desperation is getting worse, and refusal to discuss and-blame shift is going growing with it
It happens that someone disagrees with a persons perspective on scripture and they're then accused of pushing a false gospel. When it could be in truth as simple as some people are just mistaken in their understanding of the scriptures they think they're defending as the true gospel.
And when they then claim they can't wait for the rapture, they're saying they'll be happy they don't have to be told they're wrong.
Titus 3:5 He saved us not by works of righteousness which we had done, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and by the renewing of the Holy Ghost,
THE RIHTEOUSNEßS OF THE JEWS WAS THROUGH THE LAW.
Deuteronomy 6:24-25 The Lord commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the Lord our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, THAT WILL BE OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.”
THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRISTIANS (NEW CREATION/MAN) IS THROUGH FAITH.
Romans 9:30-32 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, A RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS BY FAITH; but ISRAEL, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it NOT BY FAITH but as if it were by works. THEY stumbled over the “stumbling stone.”
IF YOU ARE A JEW WHOSE RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THROUGH THE LAW ….IT IS "NOT BY WORKS".(ephesians 2:8-deuteronomy 6:24-25)
WHETHER YOU'RE A GENTILE OR A JEW, IF YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THROUGH FAITH , YOU ARE;
..God's workmanship created in
Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS which He has PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR US TO DO . ( ephesians 2:10)
“NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAD DONE" REFERS TO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE JEWS WHICH WAS THROUGH THE LAW. (titus 3:5, eph 2:8-9)
PAUL’S QUESTION IS:
Romans 3:31 Do we, then, NULLIFY the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
HE ALSO SAID,
2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and iF I HAVE FAITH that can move mountains, BUT DO NOT HAVE LOVE, I AM NOTHING.
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. BUT THE GREATEST OF THESE IS LOVE.
Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith NULLIFY God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”
GOD PUTS AND WRITES THE LAW IN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS.
Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
Hebrews 10:16 “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”
...NOT JUST TO THE JEWS WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE FLESH BUT ALSO TO THOSE WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE HEART.
Romans 2:28-29 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.
AND CHRISTIANS ARE ABLE TO FULFILL AND UPHOLD THE LAW IN THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS BECAUSE OF THE LOVE THAT WAS POURED INTO THEIR HEARTS.
Romans 5:5 And hope does not disappoint us, because GOD HAS POURED OUT HIS LOVE INTO OUR HEARTS by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.
AND THEREFORE, “LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW.”(romans 13:10)
galatians 6
2 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.
1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.
1 John 5:2-3 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE; THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.
Romans 10:9-10 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your HEART that you BELIEVE and are JUSTIFIED, and it is with your MOUTH that you CONFESS and are SAVED.
1 John 3:18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but WITH ACTIONS AND IN TRUTH.
Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
John 14:15 “IF YOU LOVE ME, YOU WILL OBEY WHAT I COMMAND.”
Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD also.
17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18how that they told you THERE SHOULD BE MOCKERS IN THE LAST TIME, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, HAVING NOT THE SPIRIT.
15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 THEY PROFESS THAT THEY KNOW GOD; but IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being ABOMINABLE, and DISOBEDIENT, and unto every good work REPROBATE.
13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, BE SOBER, and HOPE TO THE END FOR THE GRACE that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 AS OBEDIENT CHILDREN, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15 but as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 because it is written, BE YE HOLY; FOR I AM HOLY.
OBEDIENCE LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH LEADS TO HOLINESS AND THE RESULT IS ETERNAL LIFE. (romans 6:16-23)
THE RIHTEOUSNEßS OF THE JEWS WAS THROUGH THE LAW.
Deuteronomy 6:24-25 The Lord commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the Lord our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, THAT WILL BE OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.”
THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRISTIANS (NEW CREATION/MAN) IS THROUGH FAITH.
Romans 9:30-32 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, A RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS BY FAITH; but ISRAEL, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it NOT BY FAITH but as if it were by works. THEY stumbled over the “stumbling stone.”
IF YOU ARE A JEW WHOSE RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THROUGH THE LAW ….IT IS "NOT BY WORKS".(ephesians 2:8-deuteronomy 6:24-25)
WHETHER YOU'RE A GENTILE OR A JEW, IF YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THROUGH FAITH , YOU ARE;
..God's workmanship created in
Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS which He has PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR US TO DO . ( ephesians 2:10)
“NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAD DONE" REFERS TO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE JEWS WHICH WAS THROUGH THE LAW. (titus 3:5, eph 2:8-9)
PAUL’S QUESTION IS:
Romans 3:31 Do we, then, NULLIFY the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
HE ALSO SAID,
2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and iF I HAVE FAITH that can move mountains, BUT DO NOT HAVE LOVE, I AM NOTHING.
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. BUT THE GREATEST OF THESE IS LOVE.
Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith NULLIFY God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”
GOD PUTS AND WRITES THE LAW IN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS.
Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
Hebrews 10:16 “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”
...NOT JUST TO THE JEWS WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE FLESH BUT ALSO TO THOSE WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE HEART.
Romans 2:28-29 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.
AND CHRISTIANS ARE ABLE TO FULFILL AND UPHOLD THE LAW IN THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS BECAUSE OF THE LOVE THAT WAS POURED INTO THEIR HEARTS.
Romans 5:5 And hope does not disappoint us, because GOD HAS POURED OUT HIS LOVE INTO OUR HEARTS by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.
AND THEREFORE, “LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW.”(romans 13:10)
galatians 6
2 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.
1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.
1 John 5:2-3 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE; THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.
Romans 10:9-10 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your HEART that you BELIEVE and are JUSTIFIED, and it is with your MOUTH that you CONFESS and are SAVED.
1 John 3:18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but WITH ACTIONS AND IN TRUTH.
Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
John 14:15 “IF YOU LOVE ME, YOU WILL OBEY WHAT I COMMAND.”
Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD also.
17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18how that they told you THERE SHOULD BE MOCKERS IN THE LAST TIME, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, HAVING NOT THE SPIRIT.
15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 THEY PROFESS THAT THEY KNOW GOD; but IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being ABOMINABLE, and DISOBEDIENT, and unto every good work REPROBATE.
13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, BE SOBER, and HOPE TO THE END FOR THE GRACE that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 AS OBEDIENT CHILDREN, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15 but as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 because it is written, BE YE HOLY; FOR I AM HOLY.
OBEDIENCE LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH LEADS TO HOLINESS AND THE RESULT IS ETERNAL LIFE. (romans 6:16-23)
1 John 3:7 - Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness (descriptive of children of God) is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin (descriptive of children of the devil) is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, (demonstrative evidence) because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. 15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
I have witnessed over and over how you and Shamah and others "claim" you don't believe we are saved by works out of one side of your mouths, yet out of the other side of your mouths go on and on about how much you follow Jesus/keep the commandments/obey the law and "define" that as believing in Him," yet mention nothing about trusting in Christ's finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation. It's always about what you do or think you did for Jesus, but not about what Jesus did for you. That always raises a red flag for me.
When someone continuously pushes the law (and not salvation by grace through faith) and continues to quote a multitude of verses about the law/works/obeying commands etc.. (all the same verses that works-salvationists in general continuously quote to try and prove man is saved based on their obedience/works -- whether directly or indirectly) it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand what is going on. it is not ones followinf of His COmmands/Laws/Words/Instructions that saves them, the following is what His people do...
As dcon points out in post #70,062 from the link below:
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-3504
LAW LAW LAW LAW LAW LAW LAW <-----all you push..........
WE are not under the law, but under GRACE!
Get it through your head...........the righteousness of CHRIST without the LAW has been imputed by faith...WE CANNOT get any more righteous....wake up pal!
*In the very next post, Shamah has a chance to demonstrate otherwise, but instead, he goes on to quote John 3:36 in the NASB and bolds -- does not obey which comes across as an implication that salvation is based on obedience/works. I've heard Roman Catholics and other works-salvationists stress this when quoting John 3:36 in the NASB. Even though Shamah said, "it is not ones following of His COmmands/Laws/Words/Instructions that saves them, the following is what His people do..." in that post, he then continues in the very same post to quote further passages of scripture that "on the surface" appear to teach that we are saved by works, *the very same verses that I often hear Roman Catholics and other works-salvationists quote as well.* Coincidence?
I was once in a discussion with a Roman Catholic in which he became very defensive that I pointed out to him he believes we are saved by works, which he strongly denied, but went on to demonstrate otherwise when he made this statement below:
I was recently in a discussion with a Roman Catholic who claims that the Roman Catholic church does not teach salvation by works, then afterwards, he said this below:
We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, Eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, Works of mercy and charity, Obeying his commandments, Doing the will of the Father etc..
Not fooling me!
I don't hold animosity towards Shamah and I certainly don't hate Shamah. That is a straw man argument.
The Messiah is always right. What if it's you who is wrong? I've heard numerous people from various false religions and cult (who teach various flavors of salvation by works) ALL say they believe and follow the Messiah, yet accuse the next guy of being wrong. They can't ALL be right.
Yet you treat me and my other brothers and sisters in Christ on this forum (who don't agree with your theology) with dignity and respect and never place untruths on us? Yeah right.
Say what?
It's interesting that you quoted this passages of scripture, which is often quoted by works-salvationists who try and use it to teach salvation by works.
If one reads Romans 2:6-11 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, as you read and study these passages, it's critical to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved (and unsaved) conduct their lives. These works done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving eternal life.
So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal. *Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. *Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9).
What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means of receiving eternal life, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not. These deeds done out of faith are the fruit, not the root of our salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8,9 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. *Also see (Romans 4:2-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).
I could ask you the same question.
& benadryl or some other antihistamine. my wife has fairly severe reactions to insect bites/stings; we found a liquid form of benadryl-clone that is really effective, especially if you take it within an hour or so of being bitten, at minimizing the swelling and shortening the time it takes to get over it. thank God we haven't had to use an epipen on her, yet
ain't it something how a 6ft 200lb man with a lifespan of a century can be taken down by a 1" 1oz creature that lives for a week?
by works; by obedience:
by faith in His holy work, by trust in His perfect obedience.
not ours. any good work i do, any obedience found in me, is Jesus of Nazareth alive and at work to faithfully complete what He began, not post. ♥
Just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of The One Man the many will be made righteous.
(Romans 5:18-19)
(Romans 5:18-19)
by faith in His holy work, by trust in His perfect obedience.
not ours. any good work i do, any obedience found in me, is Jesus of Nazareth alive and at work to faithfully complete what He began, not post. ♥
& benadryl or some other antihistamine. my wife has fairly severe reactions to insect bites/stings; we found a liquid form of benadryl-clone that is really effective, especially if you take it within an hour or so of being bitten, at minimizing the swelling and shortening the time it takes to get over it. thank God we haven't had to use an epipen on her, yet
ain't it something how a 6ft 200lb man with a lifespan of a century can be taken down by a 1" 1oz creature that lives for a week?
Hi Posthuman and thank you for adding antihistamine to help resolve allergic reactions. An epipen will help save your life if an allergic reaction should progress to anaphylactic shock. Good advice thank you.
You say you don't hold animosity towards Shamah out of one side of your mouth, then you and your friends call him "Pharisee" ( they killed the Messiah you know) Lawyer, (they condoned the killing of the Christ) SDA, JW, Legalists, "Fallen from Grace", liar, and on and on, out of the other side of your mouth.
What else can you say. "I'm sorry, I shouldn't call people names like that who are only sharing the Scriptures with me".
What about the rest of the bible? How can you understand Roman's and Galatians if you reject the rest of the bible?
Isn't Paul saying the exact same thing His Master told him from the very beginning and repeated over and over and over to the very end..
Gen. 4: 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Is. 56:
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
You seem to preach Paul didn't "believe" these scriptures and actually taught against them? I don't think Paul agrees.
Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
Everyone follows a Path, everyone has "Works". To deny this is the purest form of self deception.
What about the definition of Evil? Is following the same Path Abraham followed Evil? How about Zechariahs? How about the Path the Christ walked, is that an Evil Path or a Good Path?
What about creating High Days from ancient pagan festivals and placing the Messiah's name on it? Is that "Good" in your religion? Is it now "Good" to Transgress the Commandments of God by man made religious traditions? Can you show me in scriptures where this is now the case, when this change happened?
What about creating images of God in the likeness of man. Is this Evil or Good in your religion?
How can we know what Evil and Good is if we don't trust the very Word which describes them?
Exactly.
Shamah did nothing but share scripture with them. They have no call to call him names and treat him the way they do.
I know we disagree on many Biblical issues, but I'm glad we agree to this point.
Have a good day TT