Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

my assurance comes from the promises of Jesus

Like John said.....these things are written that you may KNOW <------John knew and he was clear....it was faith based and eternal........not something lost like a quarter on the street or forfeit like freedom when one goes to jail......

 

[dcontroversal]

lol

how about you explain what you think
this parable means ben

Can-o-worms with a lemon "I save myself" twist and a shot of I can lose it or forfeit it sauce driveled all over it....pun fully intended....

 

[dcontroversal]

You make me laugh.

You are the first to get upset when you feel people question you as to whether you are a true believer or not, or if they disagree theologically with you.

You say along the lines "Just because we disagree that does not make me a non beliver, even believers disagree"

Yet you are one of the first to accuse others exactly what you get upset yourself about.

You have more or less accused VCO of not being a believer because he dares to disagree with your theological position, mainly that baptism saves, no baptism in water = no salvation.

The foolish virgins I believe were not saved on the first place.

All 10 had lamps.
Lamps bring light, Jesus said let your light shine before men.
So we have 10 virgns all with lamps.
They are the lamps.

Yet only 5 had oil, the other 5 did not.
The 5 who had oil are genuine belivers, who have the Holy Spirit in them.
The other 5 did not, therefore merely professing belivers. They are no light to the world, therefore they are off the world.

This parable had nothing to do with loseing salvation but is to do with those who are genuine and those who are not genuine belivers.

Salvation losers almost to a t will twist many scriptures that have nothing to do with losing salvation into something that teaches one can lose salvation....a very skewed view indeed.....

 

[dcontroversal]

You are interpreting this parable in the way that it supports your NoOSAS/ES beliefs, that is a bad way to interpret the bible.

You are reading "into" the bible what you want it to say; instead of letting the bible speak to you.

A false interpretation equals, a false application, all of the time.

You should peg that to your page....it is absolutely correct.........

 

[BillG]

Salvation losers almost to a t will twist many scriptures that have nothing to do with losing salvation into something that teaches one can lose salvation....a very skewed view indeed.....

DC i don't get it, actually I have to say I do get it.
I say that because I have lived a flip of the coin life.

Heads your saved, tails your not.
Tails your saved and heads your not.

Now I'm convinced and will never be unconvinced that our Fathet flips a coin every day and asks us to guess "Saved or not saved"

If that's the case then it's cruel, if that's the case then I may as well become a Muslim.
Hope my good works outweigh my bad works.

I'm now sure that our Father is not a coin flipper.
We only have to read Psalm 103 to know this.

 

[dcontroversal]

DC i don't get it, actually I have to say I do get it.
I say that because I have lived a flip of the coin life.

Heads your saved, tails your not.
Tails your saved and heads your not.

Now I'm convinced and will never be unconvinced that our Fathet flips a coin every day and asks us to guess "Saved or not saved"

If that's the case then it's cruel, if that's the case then I may as well become a Muslim.
Hope my good works outweigh my bad works.

I'm now sure that our Father is not a coin flipper.
We only have to read Psalm 103 to know this.

Like he said.....If in this life only we have hope in Christ.......<----we would be miserable.....

The bible is replete with scripture after scripture that proves eternal security....as a matter of act, the amount of scripture in context that must be rejected to believe in a loseable salvation would result in most of the New Testament being ripped from the bible.....they must flat reject the promises of Christ, the power of Christ, the words of Paul, Peter, John, Luke etc....they must reject an deny the words eternal and everlasting tied to life, they must deny verb tense etc....and on top of that they must embellish, twist, change, add to the bible in numerous ways....

Truth...if salvation can be lost....everyone is cooking and heaven will sound like the woods at night in late fall with a few crickets......

 

[dcontroversal]

i just argued in real life for maybe 30 minutes with someone trying to justify doing evil so good may come

i believed this man has said some strange things in the past i questioned

"well i can always ask for forgiveness after hahaha"

or
"im good so long as i repent"

but today i heard he was going to attack someone who stole from him after work....

so i went to speak with him

and after he tried maybe 10 ways to justify bringing forth wrath

he said

"you dont believe God works through people to do his work? what about the guy He sent to cali to murder all those homos"


i then remind Him Gods work doesnt involve spite or malice

or grudges of men

or the wrath of men

and that lost man who killed them other lost folk was not doing Gods work by sinning


we are not to do evil so that good may come

he quickly then stated "you dont think God has ever killed anyone to remove sin"


he then wouldnt let me get another word out and both of us were talking over eachother until he put his headphones in (passively telling me to walk away from his station)

so i walked away....


but now im left feeling very sad

and disappointed.....


anyways..... this is making me wonder


how many people who say they are believers.... call their works "good" while doing evil and then say they do what they do in Jesus name

The end justifies the means <---this fallacy permeates churches, individuals and families all over the world...as a matter of fact I was raked over the coals on this site by numerous people who tried to justify breaking the law to justify doing something good....and then tried to compare it to the disciples being beaten and commanded to not speak in the name of JESUS <---apples to oranges!

 

[NoNameMcgee]

The end justifies the means <---this fallacy permeates churches, individuals and families all over the world...as a matter of fact I was raked over the coals on this site by numerous people who tried to justify breaking the law to justify doing something good....and then tried to compare it to the disciples being beaten and commanded to not speak in the name of JESUS <---apples to oranges!

how are we supposed to be shining examples of the body of Christ if our methods are no different from the lost.....

i know you dont agree with this fallacy of "the end justifies the means"


but.... i just cant wrap my head around it....
reminds me of socialism

and i agree

it seems to be everywhere these days

 

[NoNameMcgee]

The end justifies the means <---this fallacy permeates churches, individuals and families all over the world...as a matter of fact I was raked over the coals on this site by numerous people who tried to justify breaking the law to justify doing something good....and then tried to compare it to the disciples being beaten and commanded to not speak in the name of JESUS <---apples to oranges!

also that comparison is ridiculous

 

[benhur]

Hi benhur, this quote is a picture of a Jewish wedding taking place. It seems as though the whole town with many friends and family would participate in this traditional wedding. Not everyone at the wedding procession was saved.

Quote:
The historical setting can also be known with a fair amount of certainty. In describing a first-century Jewish wedding, D.A. Carson in the Expositor’s Bible Commentary describes the setting this way: “Normally the bridegroom with some close friends left his home to go to the bride’s home, where there were various ceremonies, followed by a procession through the streets – after nightfall – to his home. The ten virgins may be bridesmaids who have been assisting the bride; and they expect to meet the groom as he comes from the bride’s house…Everyone in the procession was expected to carry his or her own torch. Those without a torch would be assumed to be party crashers or even brigands. The festivities, which might last several days, would formally get under way at the groom’s house.” The torch was either a lamp with a small oil tank and wick or a stick with a rag soaked in oil on the end of it which would require occasional re-soaking to maintain the flame.

Ok, several facts about the virgins:
1) they were all waiting for the bridesgroom to come. Carson even suggests they may be bridesmaids who were assisting the bride, who you expect had the right credentials to show up and be recognized at the wedding feast. This means they were not party crashers or brigands.
2) they were all waiting in the same place, and even slept in the same vacinity. Again, these virgins were not party crashers or brigands.
3) they all had lamps. But 5 had lamps with oil + they had extra oil in their vessels. 5 had oil in their lamps, but not extra oil for extended circumsances.

So with these facts in mind could all the virgins be saved. The answer is yes, since they were obviously invited to the wedding feast, could have assisted the bride, and had lamps to enjoy the march if at night.

If they were saved, 5 messed up with their oil and missed the procession, and then after the door was shut, were turned away when they showd up.

What is the parable all about. To me it is 5 unwise virgins that lost out on their wedding feast. It is a parable about losing out if you do not do things God tells you to do. Even though you think you may be saved, if you do not do what God tells you to do, you lose. He will prompt you by the Holy Spirit and try to keep you straight, but alas, the choice is yours, and the decisions you make are yours and youc an lose your salvation if you do not keep watch and remain stedfast.

 

[benhur]

No it does not mean you are saved and this is true at a wedding procession in our own time today.

BillG, TT says even if you get invited and you accept you are not saved. What do you think?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

BillG, TT says even if you get invited and you accept you are not saved. What do you think?

judas

 

[TruthTalk]

Ok, several facts about the virgins:
1) they were all waiting for the bridesgroom to come. Carson even suggests they may be bridesmaids who were assisting the bride, who you expect had the right credentials to show up and be recognized at the wedding feast. This means they were not party crashers or brigands.
2) they were all waiting in the same place, and even slept in the same vacinity. Again, these virgins were not party crashers or brigands.
3) they all had lamps. But 5 had lamps with oil + they had extra oil in their vessels. 5 had oil in their lamps, but not extra oil for extended circumsances.

So with these facts in mind could all the virgins be saved. The answer is yes, since they were obviously invited to the wedding feast, could have assisted the bride, and had lamps to enjoy the march if at night.

If they were saved, 5 messed up with their oil and missed the procession, and then after the door was shut, were turned away when they showd up.

What is the parable all about. To me it is 5 unwise virgins that lost out on their wedding feast. It is a parable about losing out if you do not do things God tells you to do. Even though you think you may be saved, if you do not do what God tells you to do, you lose. He will prompt you by the Holy Spirit and try to keep you straight, but alas, the choice is yours, and the decisions you make are yours and youc an lose your salvation if you do not keep watch and remain stedfast.

Okay we both have our own interpretations, I accept yours and I will keep to my security of the believer which is supported by scripture.

 

[TruthTalk]

judas

Good point NoName, gotta remember that one.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Good point NoName, gotta remember that one.

Matthew 13:24-30
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Ok and what does that law say.

Does it not say that the man and the woman should both be presented and are there not meant to be witnesses who had seen the offence take place?

Jesus told her “go and sin no more”.


That’s what the scripture says.


No amount of “explaining away” what Jesus said will change that fact.



JPT

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Jesus told her “go and sin no more”.


That’s what the scripture says.


No amount of “explaining away” what Jesus said will change that fact.



JPT

explain what away?

no one is explaining anything away...

but you certainly seem to be adding to its meaning

 

[justpassinthrough]

Quote, you say: "If you hate a person then you are disobeying His commandment to love."

I say: you do not have to like someone in order to love them. Your statement is myopic and focused on guilt. Your looking at the bible through the wrong end of a telescope, "turn it around" and you will see clearly.

My love say's - repent and believe the gospel and you will be saved.

My statement is biblical.


If a born again Christian has his wife run off with another Church member, and begins to hate them, and becomes bitter and dies in unforgiveness, then he will be lost.


JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

I tried to escape the slavery of addiction for 30 years, failed every time. Jesus took my addiction in an instant.

Can you explain for me how Jesus did this?


JPT

 

[tourist]

My statement is biblical.


If a born again Christian has his wife run off with another Church member, and begins to hate them, and becomes bitter and dies in unforgiveness, then he will be lost.


JPT

If he was born again he would certainly not be lost. I don't blame the guy if he were to hate them. To me, that would be a normal reaction. The slime ball and the wife that ran off with him are the ones in need of forgiveness, not the poor guy who lost his wife.