Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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HAHAHAHAH unlike you pal that takes a creed of men to base beliefs on I actually study the bible....and guess what...God has this amazing thing built into men called memory and the ability to recall verse after verse after verse on any given subject...plus the leadership, guidance and direction of the Holy Spirit to reveal and lead into ALL truth...
and again you fail to understand the point...YOU have elevated the creed above the bible....
Asked and not answered yet.
Where in the Bible is there sections condemning creedal statements of doctrine. Also where in the Apostles Creed is there a error. Base all on all pertinent scripture instead of your opinion which is all you state.
Book, chapter, and verses please.
You keep saying Bible only so now prove your opinion from the Bible as you say it is the only thing you accept. Prove it now forthwith.
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A
Ariel82
Guest
People are compared to trees. I can get the Bible verses.
Yes people have works and deeds be they good or bad.
How ever works don't determine salvation.
The only difference between true Gospel and false gospel is the difference between agape love and fear.
Agape love says that God loves us even when we were enemies to Him and sinners. He forgave us even though we didn't deserve it, He loves us even when we hated Him.
Fear says that if we aren't good enough, God will stop loving us. Fear says we have to work for our salvation.
Love says that because we are saved we can share God's love with others through our works..,,, not out of fear but love,
Do you understand the distinction?
It was done by Jesus comparing works to fruit. Good fruit from good trees and bad fruit from bad trees. Which do you generate is the answer of how you will be perceived. It defines whether you are saved or not
The burden of proof is on you....show me where the bible states to go outside the bible as the rule of faith and practice and place a creed written by men over it.
No wait a minute....you said using trees was a bad analogy....which is it.......
You rant in error. I guess using materials in Sunday School classes is horrid to you. Also handouts explaining the beliefs the church stands for to those wanting to understand the churches view of scripture. You literally condemn all Christian literature with your blind assertions. All of the books written by pastors that try to help people understand scripture.
As I stated. Go fly a kite.
I was just explaining I understood what she was talking about Dippidy Doo. Did you bother to read the post I was responding to? Probably not and just went off half cocked. Do you understand that reference.
Go fly a kite on a winless day. That way you can use your energy productively instead of ranting foolishness here!!
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And Hear is a few more for comparison, God is our Rock, our Shield, our Horn of our salvation, my stronghold
The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.
It seems that Endoscopy needs to retool his logic.
Are you stating the history of the early elders creating the creedal statements of doctrine to fight heresies was wrong? Have you bothered to Google the history of the Roman and Apostle's Creed?
Go research before making accusations.
Actually, in context, He was speaking of anyone who tries to thwart the truth of the new covenant and mislead people into the den of the devil. True spiritual fruits come from the understanding of the truth in the Gospel and believing it. Once you know true doctrine, you can produce good fruits by physically doing nothing. The fruit of the Spirit is Love, joy, peace, etc. If you have the Spirit of God in you, you yield good fruit, and are unable to deny whatsoever that Jesus is The Christ. What if I were an invalid and was unable to show my works? My works would then be my fruit of the Spirit and my belief in Christ. For when the crowd asked Christ "What might we do to do the works of God?" He replied "Believe on him who he has sent,"
You know come to think of it....I have only heard him reference James 2 and "THE CREED" Kind of like a good Catholic referencing the POPE or the Catholic Catechism............
He emphatically states that works are required for salvation even though the bible states....
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he saved us" (PAST TENSE)
or
"Therefore, we conclude a man is justified by FAITH, without the works/deeds of the law"
or
"In the grace we are, having been saved out of faith (past tense) and that not of ourselves, it is the GIFT of GOD and NOT OF WORKS lest any man should boast."
or
"It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."
WORKS or GRACE.....NOT BOTH....ONE or the OTHER!
Now instead of "THE CREED" it is the CREEDAL STATEMENTS....hahahha The bible trumps the creed, any creed, all creeds......
I am 73 and in three churches (moved twice) have been an elder and deacon in reformed theology denominations and been taught theology by pastors before being confirmed for the ceremony appointment. I have a deep understanding of the issues. Thus my objections to Dcon's statements. I understand the Apostles Creed was created as a doctrinal statement of what a Christian must believe because it was used to fight Gnosticism in the early church. Go research it yourself. He blinds himself to this. He refuses to accept the reasons for doctrinal statements and after being repeatedly asked for non Biblical statements in the doctrinal statements made no response that I remember.
In your statement you make an error. The fruits of the Spirit you talk about can be demonstrated by how you talk to people when bedridden. There was a Christian figure skater that was paralyzed from the neck down and was a great witness for Jesus from her bed. I forget her name. Google couldn't find it for me.
I don't believe we are able to accurately judge someone by their deeds, for we are unable to see the true intent of the heart. God can though. The heart is wicked above all things who can know it? I could do many good deeds as far as human standards apply, but if my deeds are not wrought in God through the Spirit, and out of love, they mean nothing. Professing Christ in true faith is a more fruitful deed than helping many people in your own righteous motivation. Our good works and sacrifices stem from the divine love revealed to us. Anything done lacking the love given to us to do it is worthless. Though our intention may be good, without the God given love as motivation, and our God given faith, it is not considered good works. Faith without works is dead does not mean you must physically help anyone whenever possible, it means that if you have faith your works will show through it. James is not saying if you have faith then you must have works, He is saying simply that it is impossible to have one without the other. Show me your faith without works, and I will show you my faith by my works. Faith produces worthy works is what he is stating. He is not judging those who claim Christ and do nothing, He is saying that works is the proof of faith, you can not have one without the other. Like I said, I could constantly do good works, deeds, but without faith they are dead works.
You never gave me the sections of scripture condemning statements of doctrine. You just jeer and ridicule them without scripture backing you up. The Bible not your opinion. All book, chapter, verses please.
Scripture not anyone's opinion is what you keep saying. Where is the scripture? I will keep asking this. It is your own statement remember!!
J
joefizz
Guest
Well well a real mind not some phony repeater or insulter you know what just for your intriguing difference in wisdom and humbleness I'm giving you rep.
50C I am fully aware of JAMES and what he teaches....and I am fully aware of Romans and what Paul states as well....
James--->before men our faith is seen and justified by works
Paul-->before GOD our faith justifies without any work attached
Salvation is a one off eternal event at the moment of faith without one work attached other than the work of the Heavenly Father....to believe on him whom he sent.
ANY WORKS all works are the by product of the saving faith one already possesses in Christ...a product of growth, maturity, and produced by CHRIST in us and through us a a living sacrifice....they do not top off salvation, embellish salvation, finish off salvation, keep us saved and without a doubt....believers, based upon the word, the transformation that comes by the word and to what level they are changed may produce 1 piece to a multitude....some good, some bad and regardless...they may be stunted in growth based upon any number of things and may produce, may quit producing, may go through periods of production and a lack thereof......
at the end of the day regardless of the above....IT IS FAITH AND FAITH ALONE that ETERNALLY SAVES A MAN and NOT of WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST