It is for the very parable that you quoted. The wheat and the tares parable is about good believers (the wheat) who are strangled and left dry and eventually fall to temptation (tares) and lose their gift. The parable of the sower is trying to tell you the same thing, that you can lose your gift if you fall amoung rocky soil and cannot put down roots strong enough to withstand the sun and you eventually whither and die and give up your gift.
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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It is for the very parable that you quoted. The wheat and the tares parable is about good believers (the wheat) who are strangled and left dry and eventually fall to temptation (tares) and lose their gift. The parable of the sower is trying to tell you the same thing, that you can lose your gift if you fall amoung rocky soil and cannot put down roots strong enough to withstand the sun and you eventually whither and die and give up your gift.
The differences come because of rejection of parts of the bible, but they can say the same thing about us. How do you handle that same logic said about you and me?
If you work real hard to forgive men.... that is all well, but if you do not believe, and have faith in Jesus, even your forgiving nature will not save you. It is a combination of belief, faith, trust, grace, and following the words of Jesus, accompanied by good works of love for you fellow man and for Jesus.
Good works always accompanies a man with a live and vibrant faith. If good works does not accompany your faith, then you were not truely saved in the first place. These good works are not for the mans self gain, but an outpouring of love for your fellow man and your God, who asks you to take care of the poor and the needy.
There is a third way to resolve debts. You lose your liberty and you are thrown into prison until every penny is paid in full.
A person that is born again starts feeling the tug of good works right away after their experience with the HG. Trees are a little different than people.
It means that whatever God has prepared for you to do in the way of good works, these good works will accompany your rebirth and faith in Jesus. Again, the scripture is full of the doctrine that good works will follow your live faith in Jesus. It is the Christian nature to assist Jesus in taking care of his needy people. Live faith is always accompanied by good works, not for our gain, but for the love of Jesus and all men.
Thank you E-gratful, I thought that contradiction would get a pass, but not for you...
Did you notice the contradiction before or after E-gratefull? As it turns out, there is no contradiction.
Is that the issue. Good works places a heavy burden on people, and Jesus did not come to do that. BillG, do you think it is a heavy and burdensome event to help your fellow man in the love and light of Jesus Christ. I really don't think you meant that.
Can you rephase that.
No.............................. I don't have a tendancy as a good Christian to do good works? Wow, I'm not sure how to answer you.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
A work is still a work, how hard you work does not matter
2 people with the same job, one sees the work as easy, and does not have to produce much effort,,the second person thinks job is hard and has t produce much effort, they both earned a wage for their work. They did not gain a gift.
not of works lest anyone should boast, plain and simple
you still teach works, meaning you reject grace
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
work is not th issue, faith is the issue,
we are saved by faith period, people who do not have any faith are not savd, period, he lack of works a non believe has or the work a true believer has means nothing, they are automatic (actually a non believer can do what we would call good works, those works are also meaningless, and a worker will do works, those works to are meaningless, as jesus said, depart from me for i never knew you.
You want to point to work. And claim people who stop producing lose salvation, you will always be seen as a legalistic worker trying to earn his salvation, period.
Nice try creed lover......the bible is clear...we are eternally saved by grace through faith no works attached....I suggest the bible instead of your pseudo Catcholic creed that you espouse in your religion......no works required to gain eternal salvation regardless of your view that they MUST BE PRESENT......
NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE.....
Wake up before you make the "Many" grouping!
He, and a few more of his "working for buddies" are walking, talking biblical contradictions....especially the one who elevates the creed above the bible as his rule of faith and practice.......the bible is replete with proof that ...
a. Works do not save
b. Works do not keep saved
c. Works do not cause the loss of salvation
d. Works do not finish off or top off salvation
e. Believers produce every flavor of work under the sun....some good....some bad
f. AND ALL TRUE BELIEVERS HAVE ALREADY DONE THE WORK OF THE HEAVENLY FATHER IN BELIEF!
My understanding is that the tares are false believers teachers who come to destroy and seek personal gain
Not belivers who lose their gift (whatever that means).
The parable of the sower does not make sense here.
Jesus says
Matthew 24:24
24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Have a good deep dig into the context of the wheat and tares.
In the agricultural society of Christ's time farmers depended on the quality of their crops.
So an enemy would sow weeds.
Why?
To sabotage the business of those who harvest wheat.
Reason being for personal gain and put the sower out of business.
Mark 4:3-9
3 “Listen! Behold, a sower went out to sow. 4 And it happened, as he sowed, that some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds of the air came and devoured it. 5 Some fell on stony ground, where it did not have much earth; and immediately it sprang up because it had no depth of earth. 6 But when the sun was up it was scorched, and because it had no root it withered away. 7 And some seed fell among thorns; and the thorns grew up and choked it, and it yielded no crop. 8 But other seed fell on good ground and yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred.”
9 And He said to them, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”
There is no mention those on the rocky soil had the gift to begin with (whatever that gift is)
Amen the bible is clear on this as well.....
a. Faith alone to gain eternal salvation <--true gospel
b. Faith plus anything to gain or keep salvation <--false gospel of a different kind with NO POWER TO SAVE and double cursed
Free gift of grace or owed because of works.....one OR the other......not both or a blend of both!!
I am telling you what I have always said....FAITH ALONE is what SAVES A MAN ETERNALLY and that SALVATION IS AN IMMEDIATE POSSESSION with CONTINUING RESULTS FROM A PAST COMPLETED ACTION.......and that righteous works do not save, help get saved, help keep salvation, top off salvation and or finish salvation!
Yes I can.
Did not the Pharisees place a heavy burden on people?
Yes they did.
Did Jesus say give me your burden and take mine?
Yes he did.
What's the difference?
What I'm saying is that the Jesus took the burden of having to jump through hoops to be saved and is saying "Because you love me you will jump through hoops because you love me"
Big difference.
Ps I never said God places a heavy burden on people.
I said man does.
Sad you actually believe I said that.
As I said "Jesus did not come to do that.
And you would be wrong again.....try again and this time stay on topic concerning what this thread is exactly about......