Not By Works

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Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE IN THE SIGHT OF MY GOD. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; OBEY IT, and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
 
UnderGrace said:
I so so so appreciate this!!!!;)

I cannot even tell you how much.

Thank you, Thank you!
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Yes sir, thank you Budman and UnderGrace, One little word, "required" this is how people wrongfully mix "grace and works"

Jesus answered, "The work of God is this:"to believe in the one he has sent." John6:29

Budman said:
Works only justify us before men, not before God. Christians can have a dead (unproductive) faith and are still saved. It seems you want it both ways by using the word "required".
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Endoscopy said:
Using logic that means that works is required. Works while not saving is demonstrating saving faith.
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Your works mixed with God's pure Grace looks like this;


.................God's Grace...............................mix with your works
 
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New International Version 1984 Matthew 19:16-26 The Rich Young Man Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” JESUS REPLIED. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.” “Which ones?” the man inquired. JESUS REPLIED, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’” “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “WHO THEN CAN BE SAVED?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but WITH God all things are possible.”
 
When Paul says we are saved by faith alone,and not by works,he is speaking when we first come to Christ,for we have not received the Spirit yet.Paul is speaking of when we were in the flesh not receiving the Spirit yet that all we can do is have faith to be saved,and none of our works can save us.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Now Paul is speaking according to someone that has received the Spirit after they confess Christ,and he could have all faith so that he could remove mountains,but if he did not have charity,love in action,works,then he is nothing.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James is speaking according to a person receiving the Spirit that if they do not have charity,love in action,works,then their faith is dead,for when a person receives the Spirit then they are justified by works,and not faith alone.

Paul is saying the same thing as James when a person receives the Spirit,that if they do not have charity,love in action,works,then they are not right with God.

People have to know when Paul is speaking when a person is in the flesh,or in the Spirit,for Paul says the same thing as James,have works or you are not right with God.

1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

The love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy,and love is the fulfilling of the law,which Paul says the same thing as James they have erred from the faith.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

John says the same thing as Paul,and James,have charity,love in action,works,or you are not right with God,for do not love in word only,but in deed,works,and in truth,for if you do not love in works then the love of God does not dwell in you.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.

Charity is greater than faith,and faith works by love,for everything stems from love,and it is not faith alone,but it is love alone,and we are saved by our love,which has to be done in deed and in truth,works,and we are saved by grace through faith.

So if we lack love,then we lack faith,then we lack grace,and this love must be to all people,caring about their needs,and only going by our needs,and feed and clothe your enemies,and love your enemies,and no name calling,and belittling,and holding unto any behavior that is a lack in love.

We are saved by our love which can only be perfect by the Spirit,and faith can only apply if we have love.

1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up(not arrogant),
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own(not selfish), is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth(does not sin by the Spirit);
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

If a person lacks the definition that Paul gave of charity,love in action,then faith cannot apply in their life,for faith must be an action.

Paul said charity thinks no evil,and does not sin by the Spirit,does not hold unto sin thinking they are alright with God,and is not arrogant,and selfish,and does not belittle people.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

To hold unto sin,or neglect the poor and needy holding unto the sin of going by your wants then faith cannot apply in your life.

But they say but if we are led of the Spirit then we will do the works,then why the lack of works,and love,which they say they cannot abstain from sin,but by the Spirit you can if you hate sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,but it does affect their relationship with God,and believe the prosperity Gospel which neglects the poor and needy.

All sin can be forgiven but many hold unto sin and think they are alright with God which those that believe faith alone,and not saved by works,fall victim to the failing of love as many of them tend to want to enjoy the world somewhat and believe that it does not affect their relationship with God.
 
many hold unto sin and think they are alright with God
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Do you still sin?

We are saved by our love
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Dead wrong.

Charity is greater than faith
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Wrong. Charity (love) doesn't save.

John says the same thing as Paul,and James,have charity,love in action,works,or you are not right with God,for do not love in word only,but in deed,works
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How many works are required?
 
Budman said:
Do you still sin?



Dead wrong.



Wrong. Charity (love) doesn't save.



How many works are required?
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Can you imagine the ignorance of saying that one who has been saved by faith does not have the spirit yet......I really thought I had heard it all......and then someone makes an ignorant statement like that....
 
preacher4truth said:
Full Pelagian heresy right there. According to the guy up above (who is writing his own gospel because the Gospel is being rejected) the only way to the Father isn't through Christ, it's through our love.
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What about Paul teaching that when we are saved by faith alone it is because we do not have the spirit yet...........
 
Matthew 10:22, “And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”

Matt 24:12-13, “And because of the increase in lawlessness, the love of many shall become cold. But he who shall have endured to the end shall be saved.”
Hebrews 3:14, “For we have become partakers of Messiah if we hold fast the beginning of our trust firm to the end.”

Hebrews 10:36, “For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of Yah you may receive what is promised.”

 [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 1:12, "Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 3:5, “He who overcomes, the same will be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name from The Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His malakim.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 25:31-46, “And when the Son of Aḏam comes in His esteem, and all the set-apart messengers with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His esteem. And all the nations shall be gathered before Him, and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats. And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the Sovereign shall say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the reign prepared for you from the foundation of the world for I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me. Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry and we fed You, or thirsty and gave You to drink? And when did we see You a stranger and took You in, or naked and clothed You? And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and we came to You? And the Sovereign shall answer and say to them, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me. He shall then also say to those on the left hand, ‘Go away from Me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his messengers for I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, was naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me. Then they also shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not serve You? Then He shall answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.”[/FONT]

I believe the Messiah.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 – poimén)."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]
 
Corinthians 1:20-31 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man’s strength. Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him. It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord.”
 
Studyman said:
Here is where to create your own Salvation.

The Word of God says;

Romans 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

If there is no Faith, there is no Grace.

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Not Faith in the Pope, or Faith in Mohammad, or faith in the image of God created by Christianity, but Faith in the "Word which became Flesh" as written about in the Bible..

This Faith is a commandment.

Duet. 10:12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD (The Word which became Flesh) thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,13 To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?

This is what Jesus, the Word which became Flesh, called the first and greatest Commandment.

This is what Paul calls "The Law of Faith" and we are to be obedient to it, and "Walk in it" as He and the Word which became Flesh teaches, to receive GRACE and Apostleship.

rom. 3:Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Not our works of Righteousness, or Man's Works of righteousness, but Gods as it is written.

Eph. 2:9 Not of (mans) works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The Word which became Flesh tells us this very same thing in Jeremiah.

Jer. 6:16 Thus saith the LORD,(The Word which became Flesh) Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, (That God created beforehand)where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls.


But they(Many on this Forum) said, We will not walk therein.

And again:

Matt. 11:29 Take (A work) my (The Word which became Flesh) yoke upon you, and learn of me;(The Word which became Flesh) for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Having Faith alone can not save you. Faith in the Pope and his teaching or Jimmy Swaggert or the Talmud can not save you. One must first "Turn to the Lord". when you do you will find a commandment from Him to have Faith in Him, no other gods.

Ex. 20:2 I (The Word which became Flesh) am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt,(Sin) out of the house of bondage.(Deception)
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

It is this "Law of faith" that we must be obedient to as it is written in the Scriptures.

It is through this "Faith" that we receive Grace, there is no other way. No other Path, no other religion or religious traditions will save us.

So your preaching that "Faith" alone with no works save us is popular doctrine to be sure, and "Many" religious people believe it just like Jesus said "SHALL" happen. But the Scriptures teach something else.
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Its intriguing to me that you quote Scriptures that teach us to live by the Law of faith in order to prove your point that we need more than faith.
 
We love Him because He loved us first, being saved is receiving His love. Careful not to put the cart before the horse. Faith alone saves and it is faith alone that produces true works. We don’t work for salvation, we work from salvation.
 
Shamah said:
. . .

I believe the Messiah.

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If youloveMe, keep My commandments.”


John 14:23-24, "יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”
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You NEED to learn to keep it SIMPLE, because you are pushing people away. NOW THERE ARE a comment from your post and two from your signature. THAT IS SIMPLE and TOO THE POINT. IT IS NOT ABOUT SALVATION, and IT IS ALL ABOUT LOVING THE LORD! THAT IS THE NEW NATURE IN US, THAT WAS BIRTHED THE MOMENT THE HOLY SPIRIT, CAUSED OUR HUMAN SPIRIT TO BE BORN AGAIN.


Romans 3:20 (CSBBible)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For no one will be justified in his sight by the works of the law, because the knowledge of sin comes through the law.


If you will only learn to strive to tie it all in with LOVING THE LORD, instead the Old Testament KEEPING THE LAW, we all may agree with most of what you say.


BUT, as long as you insist to tie it in with verses out of the Old Testament LAW, we will have to label it as a Doctrine based on a FALSE GOSPEL.



 
Romans 10:8-18 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: “Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.”
 
Romans 9:4-5 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

Ephesians 2:11-22 One in Christ Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (that done in the body by the hands of men)— remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.

Timothy 1:9-11 We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

Romans 3:28-31 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
 
Budman said:
Works only justify us before men, not before God. Christians can have a dead (unproductive) faith and are still saved. It seems you want it both ways by using the word "required".
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In James it states the following about faith an works. Works demonstrates a saving faith since without works faith is a dead faith.

James 2 AMPC
14 What is the use (profit), my brethren, for anyone to profess to have faith if he has no [good] works [to show for it]? Can [such] faith save [his soul]?
15 If a brother or sister is poorly clad and lacks food for each day,
16 And one of you says to him, Good-bye! Keep [yourself] warm and well fed, without giving him the necessities for the body, what good does that do?
17 So also faith, if it does not have works (deeds and actions of obedience to back it up), by itself is destitute of power (inoperative, dead).
18 But someone will say [to you then], You [say you] have faith, and I have [good] works. Now you show me your [alleged] faith apart from any [good] works [if you can], and I by [good] works [of obedience] will show you my faith.
 
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If we accept Jesus as our savior our faith impels us to do good works. Without those works it is a fake faith.
 
Endoscopy said:
If we accept Jesus as our savior our faith impels us to do good works. Without those works it is a fake faith.
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Do we still have free will after conversion? Or are we mindless robots now, who cannot refuse anything good, nor do anything bad?

And again, just how many works are needed to "prove" we actually have saving faith?

Since you, and the others on this thread who support you, judge by appearance in regard to who is or isn't a believer, you would have to conclude that those such as Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc., are definitely Christians because they are constantly doing works.
 
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