Not By Works

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Too funny...;);)

But He is Canadian now ...different time zone:p


Locutus said:
4 AM in the morning in the UK and fasthideous Peter still at it...
rolleye0010.gif
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Lucy-Pevensie said:
So faith in forgiveness saves us but we don't get the forgiveness without works?
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No, you don't have works without forgiveness.

“her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much”-Luke 7:47.

Our obedience to do right and love God and others shows that we have the forgiveness of God in salvation. Without that proof we show that we do not belong to God in salvation and are not saved.

"anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother."-1 John 3:10.

 
So basically our salvation is in our proof...no proof no salvation.



Ralph- said:
No, you don't have works without forgiveness.

“her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much”-Luke 7:47.

Our obedience to do right and love God and others shows that we have the forgiveness of God in salvation. Without that proof we show that we do not belong to God in salvation and are not saved.

"anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother."-1 John 3:10.

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UnderGrace said:
So basically our salvation is in our proof...no proof no salvation.
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Remember, Poor God up there is aweful busy, He needs proof. Because he may not actually know if our faith is real or not. Because he has all these other things he needs to do.
 
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I remember reading about a young man who desired justice in his society.
The upshot was he wanted things to work in a sensible just way, but he was accused
of a crime of blasphemy, and the people were happy to kill him.

His reaction was it did not matter because it was better to be out of the world than
in a place that was just chaos.

When you know the Lord, and the beauty of His ways and walk, life and the world
does look totally absurd. It is why the apostles were happy to walk to their deaths,
because they knew what and who was on the other side to welcome them home.

Amen. When the world no longer has a hold on your life and actions, that is true
freedom, and great release, and suddenly you wonder why you tried so hard to keep
people happy, rather than just do what needed to be done.

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
Gal 5:1

The Lord does not dominate us, but calls us to walk in His ways because they
are the ways of life.
 
LightLoveHope said:
I remember reading about a young man who desired justice in his society.
The upshot was he wanted things to work in a sensible just way, but he was accused
of a crime of blasphemy, and the people were happy to kill him.

His reaction was it did not matter because it was better to be out of the world than
in a place that was just chaos.

When you know the Lord, and the beauty of His ways and walk, life and the world
does look totally absurd. It is why the apostles were happy to walk to their deaths,
because they knew what and who was on the other side to welcome them home.

Amen. When the world no longer has a hold on your life and actions, that is true
freedom, and great release, and suddenly you wonder why you tried so hard to keep
people happy, rather than just do what needed to be done.

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
Gal 5:1

The Lord does not dominate us, but calls us to walk in His ways because they
are the ways of life.
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Peter Jens anyone?
 
NoNameMcgee said:
He looks to the heart

man looks to works
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Yes, God can see inside every heart, but that does not change the fact that In Matthew 25 God will be looking at works when he comes back.

The person who thinks they will be saved from the fire when Jesus comes back because they think they have a good heart but no works is deceived. If you have a good heart on the inside, you'll have good works on the outside.


"first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also."-Matthew 23:26


You got the order right-heart first. But you're leaving off the result-being clean on the outside, too. You can't separate the two.


"The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil"-Luke 6:45
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Remember, Poor God up there is aweful busy, He needs proof. Because he may not actually know if our faith is real or not. Because he has all these other things he needs to do.
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He does not need outward proof. But he has decided that we will be acquitted or condemned on the testimony of our lives. He doesn't have to do that, but he will. That's what he plainly said he will do.
 
Ralph- said:
He does not need outward proof. But he has decided that we will be acquitted or condemned on the testimony of our lives. He doesn't have to do that, but he will. That's what he plainly said he will do.
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Wrong, he said we will be acquitted or condemned based on our faith (he who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already)

Again, You have a fetish with works. Take your eyes off yourself and plant them on Christ, thats your only hope.
 
dcontroversal said:
I agree, but will add.....the bible is replete with the saved that have every gambit of work...some good and righteous, some contrary and sinful....also the sanctification of the life and daily living is a process of growth and maturity which can be stunted and or haphazard based upon the amount of the word and type of teaching one gets....some may bear one apple, some an abundance...and yet an apple tree is an apple tree by birth from the moment it sprouts LONG before it produces one piece of fruit...also...it may bear little, a lot, or have years where it bears nothing due to "spiritual drought" and or may produce and slowly produce less as it ages and begins to die off.....and lest we forget....ALL who have been genuinely saved have already done the WORKS of the Heavenly FATHER...also....a cup of cold water alone will not go unnoticed and or unrewarded.....but to say that NONE will be saved until JESUS sees our works totally contradicts the bible.
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Did you ever hear of crab apple trees? It produces very small, gnarly looking green apples, that are so sour that it takes a lot of salt to eat one. I used to eat them as a kid. Or just a few bites, is about all one can bear.

There's a lesson in this tree. Has to do with the salt. :)

Not sure yet though what the lesson is. Haha..stay salty, one can eat the sour things of life. I don't know what it means in the whiskey ad though. :)
 
WRONG....not good to change the words of Jesus.

Ralph- said:
He does not need outward proof. But he has decided that we will be acquitted or condemned on the testimony of our lives. He doesn't have to do that, but he will. That's what he plainly said he will do.
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John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

John 10:28: “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”
 
The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want.

He makes me lie down in green pastures, he leads me beside quiet waters,

he restores my soul. He guides me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your

staff, they comfort me.

You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows.

Surely goodness and love will follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever.
 
Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals.

And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, "Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?"

But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it.

I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside.

Then one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals."

Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne.

And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation.

You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth."
 
UnderGrace said:
So basically our salvation is in our proof...no proof no salvation.
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When he comes back he will save those who are already saved in him by faith, their works being the evidence of that faith, and he will condemn those who aren't, their works being the evidence of their lack of faith.

You'l have to ask him why he said in Matthew 25:31-46 that he will use works as the evidence of us having faith in him instead of him just deciding based on what he already knows. The point is he did in fact say that's what he's going to do. I know that doesn't fit in with what the church has taught us, but maybe, just maybe we need to be good Bereans and start going with what the word actually says, not what the church says.
 
"Woe to me!" I cried. "I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty."

Then one of the seraphs flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar.

With it he touched my mouth and said, "See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for."

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"

He said, "Go and tell this people: "'Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.'

Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."

Then I said, "For how long, O Lord?" And he answered: "Until the cities lie ruined and without inhabitant, until the houses are left deserted and the fields ruined and ravaged,

until the LORD has sent everyone far away and the land is utterly forsaken.

And though a tenth remains in the land, it will again be laid waste. But as the terebinth and oak leave stumps when they are cut down, so the holy seed will be the stump in the land."
 
Matthew 25: 34
Jesus said, “the kingdom prepared for them.” This means that the people are already believers because they were born again and had received His righteousness.

If were are saved by our works then there is no Gospel.

This is Catholic theology, they always use this passage, placing adherents in an anxiety provoking state, where they never really know if they are doing enough to make the cut.

Sad really!!


Ralph- said:
When he comes back he will save those who are already saved in him by faith, their works being the evidence of that faith, and he will condemn those who aren't, their works being the evidence of their lack of faith.

You'l have to ask him why he said in Matthew 25:31-46 that he will use works as the evidence of us having faith in him instead of him just deciding based on what he already knows. The point is he did in fact say that's what he's going to do. I know that doesn't fit in with what the church has taught us, but maybe, just maybe we need to be good Bereans and start going with what the word actually says, not what the church says.
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