Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
John316_Mag.jpg
 
TruthTalk said:
The people you are referring to are false teachers and should not be trying to convert Christians to their false teaching in the Church or on an international Christian website. They are deceivers and impostors, Romans16:17, and their lies are sugar coated with sweet words that are taken from the bible but are not rooted and grounded in the truth. When you confront their lies all you get is more sugar coated lies, deceptions. PJ had many anger issues but finally his true colors came through.

False teachers should be confronted because knowingly or not; they lead people who are unaware onto the wrong path. If you say well, they seemed so loving, look out.
(Impostors are not what they seem to be).

True and False Prophets: Matthew7:15
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves."

Paul and the False Apostles: 2 Corinthians11:12-15
12) And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about.
13) For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ.
14) And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
15) It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

"I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. "Keep away from them" Romans16
Click to expand...


You can confront them with truth, Name calling is never going to convince anyone, nor is lieing about people belief, nor is is attacking others who happen to to try to talk to them civily

There is nothing better than the truth, God in the OT told his people to go and give truth, so that seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not hear. He did not say attack them.

I am not saying you or anyone are doing this, I am just saying we need to be careful how we represent God.

 
Magenta said:
Thank you Dan, and all else :) There are wonderful resources online :D Sometimes they are hard to find as they get intermixed with false teachings on the information super highway, so discernment is needed, just as it is to realize we will not always see the good works of others, nor is it our responsibility to be fruit inspectors of all, as someone used to say... Not seeing the good works of another does not automatically equate to that other not being saved. The way some people talk, you would think it did. Only God knows the heart :)
Click to expand...
Jesus himself said how we are to discern false teachers from real ones. By their fruit.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
The difference between Paul and James is not jew or gentile. James wrote to Jews, Paul wrote to jew and gentile alike.

The issue was the type of Gospel they were fighting, Paul fought legalistic jews., James fought licentious jews.

The both said the same thing, if we take them in correct context
Click to expand...

There is no Jew or Gentile in the body of Christ.

James specifically writes to the twelve tribes scattered abroad. In every case throughout Scripture, twelve tribes always means the twelve tribes of the nation of Israel as a whole, and never is it used for a called out group of that nation. It is never a reference to Jewish believers. This would contradict every other usage in Scripture. I'm not willing to do that. I want to be honest with the words and not build in my own theology to make it fit.
 
PennEd said:
Gosh. I hate to break out an Avatar clip, but sometimes these mother earth secular stuff has a bit of truth to it:

Please empty YOUR cup:

[video=youtube;fkv7O_mOn_E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkv7O_mOn_E[/video]
Click to expand...
It's okay. I know this is new teaching to you. The church is far removed from the truth of scripture. Law is immediately heard as only 'Sabbath and Holy Days', and 'trying to earn your own salvation'. They do not know that the obedience the NT calls us to is the law and prophets, and then some.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
I disagree, If james and paul are in opposition, one of them has to go. Or the Bible is not to be trusted. Because one of. Them are wrong.

As for which james, When I wrote what you said earlier about james and paul fighting, paul fought with peter. Should we be Leary of peter also? Just saying,
Click to expand...

The Bible can be trusted, but we need to listen to Paul's command to rightly divide the word of truth so we don't get truth crossed over different audiences. God has been dispensing truth to man throughout human history. Some truths are not meant to be obeyed by other audiences than the one intended. All truth to the body of Christ, we should observe. Truth given to the Jew, we need to be careful about how we proceed.
 
John146 said:
James 2 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Abraham's justification was not fulfilled until he offered up Isaac as a sacrifice.
Click to expand...

context...........

NoNameMcgee said:
context

post human went over this himself the other day


Galatians 3:6-9
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Romans 4:2-4
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
John146 said:
There is no Jew or Gentile in the body of Christ.

James specifically writes to the twelve tribes scattered abroad. In every case throughout Scripture, twelve tribes always means the twelve tribes of the nation of Israel as a whole, and never is it used for a called out group of that nation. It is never a reference to Jewish believers. This would contradict every other usage in Scripture. I'm not willing to do that. I want to be honest with the words and not build in my own theology to make it fit.
Click to expand...
This is true, but I agree with EG in the part about Paul addressing people in how to be saved and James addressing worksless people in the church, who may or may not be saved, but who make a confession of Christ.
 
John146 said:
James 2 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Abraham's justification was not fulfilled until he offered up Isaac as a sacrifice.
Click to expand...


Rom 4: [FONT=&quot]What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?[a] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. [/FONT]3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[b] 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.[h=3]David Celebrates the Same Truth[/h][FONT=&quot]5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”[c][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[h=3]Abraham Justified Before Circumcision[/h][FONT=&quot]9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised,

You resolve the contradiction (supposed)

I already have, Until you do, You will never resolve James, but continue to make paul contradict james[/FONT]
 
John146 said:
There is no Jew or Gentile in the body of Christ.

James specifically writes to the twelve tribes scattered abroad. In every case throughout Scripture, twelve tribes always means the twelve tribes of the nation of Israel as a whole, and never is it used for a called out group of that nation. It is never a reference to Jewish believers. This would contradict every other usage in Scripture. I'm not willing to do that. I want to be honest with the words and not build in my own theology to make it fit.
Click to expand...


Whatever, I disagree,

Your twisting the words. The world as a whole was always called the world. 12q tribes has ALWAYS been representative of the 12 children of Israel.

 
Ralph- said:
Jesus himself said how we are to discern false teachers from real ones. By their fruit.
Click to expand...
Do you mean when He warned against false prophets and false christs?

“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand. Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it’ ” (Matthew 24:23-26, NKJV).

Or do you mean Matt 7:15-20, regarding false prophets?

Or Matthew 16:11-12, regarding the mixing in of the leaven of Pharisees and Sadducces?
​
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back