Not By Works

[Cee]

I thought I read someone say faith alone wasn't enough for salvation. It appears to me these Scriptures teach the MOMENT one believes they have eternal life.

 

[TruthTalk]

I was there also. Johnny Piper, Johnny Mac and their mainstream popular 'followers' were my false teachers for WAYYYYYYYYY to long. I always get a kick out of those who say, " You have no clue what your talking about, you really should read and study what they say!"

Hi Mercy4you, I was a member of Grace Church, Pastor John MacArthur from 1978 to 1988; career dept, music and assistant Friday night bible study, a little bit of EE, Evangelism Explosion. I was baptized by Pastor John on Sept, 25th 1978. Later my wife and I retired to Thailand around 2005.

Many people left the comfort of their homes from far away just to sit under Pastor John's teaching, I was born and raised in that area of the city. Question, what happened? Used to be a Church you could trust for rock solid teaching and discipleship.

 

[Mercy4u]

Are these scriptures below TRUTH or does it have no bearing unto salvation?

James 2:14-26 Faith and Deeds What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Hebrews 5:7-9 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.



2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

All scripture is Absolute truth. But the scripture you bring up are about service. Faith without works IS DEAD. How can we save a starving and naked man if we don't give him food and clothing?

It is just that NO ONE can find a verse that says," faith without works salvation/eternal life/His gift/His sealing/the new creation is dead."

 

[ElAmor]

New International Version 1984 Matthew 13:18-23 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path. The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful. But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

 

[ElAmor]

New International Version 1984 John 1:1-3,14 The Word Became Flesh In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

[Cee]

It's unfortunate people still believe not knowing the Law makes us deceived:

John 7:47 Therefore the Pharisees answered them, “Have you also been deceived? 48Has any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on Him? 49But this crowd, not knowing the Law, are accursed.”

Because they thought they knew the Law better than anyone else they didn't turn to Him.

Sound familiar?

 

[Mercy4u]

Hi Mercy4you, I was a member of Grace Church, Pastor John MacArthur from 1978 to 1988; career dept, music and assistant Friday night bible study, a little bit of EE, Evangelism Explosion. I was baptized by Pastor John on Sept, 25th 1978. Later my wife and I retired to Thailand around 2005.

Many people left the comfort of their homes from far away just to sit under Pastor John's teaching, I was born and raised in that area of the city. Question, what happened? Used to be a Church you could trust for rock solid teaching and discipleship.

What was rock solid? I never heard unmerited grace from Him. I THOUGHT I did, but there was ALWAYS a "grace...but", "grace...however", "grace... and."

There was always a caveat to grace. I did not see it until I found my right pastor teacher.

 

[TMS]

It is all Jesus Christ and His works, It is 100% faith in His grace that results in salvation., BUT do we than make works a dirty thing and make the good deeds something that is against grace? that is taking it to the other extreme. Faith and works go hand in hand and can't be separated.
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Just confessing that you believe is not enough

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.



2Pe_2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Knowing the way of righteousness means following it.

Even Faith is a gift like grace and we can't do any good because all good comes from God, but if we are not being changed and renewed by the gift of faith it will be seen in our actions and works.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

faith and works go hand in hand with each other.

To say you have faith and don't have works is like a tree with out fruit.

2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
2Th 1:12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.


1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
1Th 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
1Th 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

Faith = actions, and all thanks to God's work in us. All glory to God.

 

[Seohce]

Are these scriptures below TRUTH or does it have no bearing unto salvation?

James 2:14-26 Faith and Deeds What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Hebrews 5:7-9 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.



2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Amen bro.

Another teaching they reject is this,

Matthew 19:16-26 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “TEACHER WHAT GOOD THING MUST I DO TO GET ETERNAL LIFE ?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.” “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’” “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “WHO THEN CAN BE SAVED?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but WITH God all things are possible.”

 

[Cee]

Amen bro.

Another teaching they reject is this,

Matthew 19:16-26 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “TEACHER WHAT GOOD THING MUST I DO TO GET ETERNAL LIFE ?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.” “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’” “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “WHO THEN CAN BE SAVED?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but WITH God all things are possible.”

Have you sold all your possessions and you're accessing the site from a library computer?

 

[UnderGrace]

Yup so much much for saved by grace through faith not of works

The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny“ (John MacArthur, Hard to Believe, p. 93).

He is very good at positing one thesis, then bringing the antithesis and creating a new synthesis

What was rock solid? I never heard unmerited grace from Him. I THOUGHT I did, but there was ALWAYS a "grace...but", "grace...however", "grace... and."

There was always a caveat to grace. I did not see it until I found my right pastor teacher.

 

[UnderGrace]

I am so glad you did!!!

We need to leave the bondage of false Lordship salvation

What was rock solid? I never heard unmerited grace from Him. I THOUGHT I did, but there was ALWAYS a "grace...but", "grace...however", "grace... and."

There was always a caveat to grace. I did not see it until I found my right pastor teacher.

 

[Mercy4u]

It is all Jesus Christ and His works, It is 100% faith in His grace that results in salvation., BUT do we than make works a dirty thing and make the good deeds something that is against grace? that is taking it to the other extreme. Faith and works go hand in hand and can't be separated.
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Just confessing that you believe is not enough

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.



2Pe_2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Knowing the way of righteousness means following it.

Even Faith is a gift like grace and we can't do any good because all good comes from God, but if we are not being changed and renewed by the gift of faith it will be seen in our actions and works.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

faith and works go hand in hand with each other.

To say you have faith and don't have works is like a tree with out fruit.

2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
2Th 1:12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.


1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
1Th 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
1Th 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

Faith = actions, and all thanks to God's work in us. All glory to God.

Most of us do make works a dirty thing after we are saved. We see a bit of a difference, become proud and run off on our own again, being all good and better than all.

Confessing that we believe does not save. Personally trusting in the works and person of The Lord Jesus Christ DOES SAVE.

If we cannot separate our works from our salvation.............we better sit down and figure out what we truly have faith in.

 

[DJ2]

I thought I read someone say faith alone wasn't enough for salvation. It appears to me these Scriptures teach the MOMENT one believes they have eternal life.

With all your highlighting and underlining I did not see the word "MOMENT" in any of your scriptures. Seems you should have found at least one verse with "MOMENT". A lot like "faith alone" that is professed but never shown.

 

[TruthTalk]

What was rock solid? I never heard unmerited grace from Him. I THOUGHT I did, but there was ALWAYS a "grace...but", "grace...however", "grace... and."

There was always a caveat to grace. I did not see it until I found my right pastor teacher.

Okay and thanks for the warning, it seemed to be a different church back then than what you describe now. You and I have many years between our church experience at Grace Church, no doubt, "What they Teach" has changed over the years. I am no longer a member of this church and I am happy that God has brought you out of and into a new Church. Thanks for sharing your experience, God bless.

 

[UnderGrace]

How about Born Again?

That is a singular event, which better represents moment.

With all that highlighting and underlining I did not see the word "MOMENT" in any of your scriptures. Seems you should have found at least one verse with "MOMENT". A lot like "faith alone" that is professed but never shown.

 

[Ralph-]

well he/she has opinions and assumptions. earlier in the thread he was telling me i am relying on my 'works of ministry' lol

if y'all knew my life and situation, you'd be ROFL to hear that

Not you personally. You all. The you is plural. I was not addressing 'you' singular.

 

[Mercy4u]

I am so glad you did!!!

We need to leave the bondage of false Lordship salvation

Amen Sister.

 

[Ralph-]

Hi Mercy4you, I was a member of Grace Church, Pastor John MacArthur from 1978 to 1988; career dept, music and assistant Friday night bible study, a little bit of EE, Evangelism Explosion. I was baptized by Pastor John on Sept, 25th 1978.

And you do not know who Lou Gastello a.k.a. Lou Castle the piano player was?

 

[DJ2]

What was rock solid? I never heard unmerited grace from Him. I THOUGHT I did, but there was ALWAYS a "grace...but", "grace...however", "grace... and."

There was always a caveat to grace. I did not see it until I found my right pastor teacher.

With the exception of universal reconciliation theology, there is always a caveat to grace.