Not By Works

[Ralph-]

Can you define "lifestyle"? What you have said it's not a one time thing because believers can commit murder once and that's ok. How many times can a believer commit murder and it become a "lifestyle"? Twice? Three? Four? Weekly? Monthly?

Let's use something more realistic. Pornography for example. The person who just does it and thinks it's okay because salvation is not by works, or doesn't care for whatever reason, he's living a lifestyle of lust and adultery. That's what he wants. He is rejecting the grace of God and will be rejected when Jesus comes back.

On the other hand, the person who is falling into it, struggling with it, hating it (but liking it), repenting, then falling again, that person is demonstrating by his resistance that he has some measure of the grace of God in his life, and wants the grace of God in his life. He's learning, he's seeking. Just the fact that he wants to be free is evidence of some measure of God's grace at work in him, before or after salvation, that he has not rejected. God can and will be merciful to that person.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's my point! You're not getting it. Put your eternal security stuff aside and think! Eternal security doesn't change the fact that the person who is doing those things does not have the grace of God in salvation. It doesn't matter if he had it and lost it, or if he never had it. The point is he does not have it now and will not be saved when Jesus comes back. Get it?

Yes it does matter, it matters a whole lot

because of they LOST It because they fell back into sin, then they had to EARN salvation by not falling, and lost it because they FAILED to keep themselves clean. Thats legalism. And no different than what the pharisees taught. And works cancel out grace.

Grace is unmerited, it means we will NEVER LIVE UP TO GODS STANDARD. If we could live u- to Gods standard, we would STOP NEEDING GRACE, and have EARNED OUR SALVATION.

It does not mean we love sin, it does not mean we excuse sin, it means we KNOW GODS STANDARD (CHRIST SET IT/PERFECION) and we can not LIVE UP TO IT.

So what do we do? Be defeated because we can not live up to Gods standard? NO, WE TRUST HIMN, KEEP PUSHING FORWARD, KNOWING he can still use us, and one day WE WILL BE GLORIFIED.

What we do not do? Eat poison (live in sin) and enjoy it, because we can not, it is no longer our nature.

 

[Ralph-]

Lol. What should I tell him? That you continue to slander him by continuing to say things he never said?

I posted what he said. Either you want to see it or you don't.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

HIS SHEEP HEAR HIS VOICE. And THEY FOLLOW HIM.

either you believe Jesus promise, or you do not.’

amen EG

it is a shame twist the words of truth


maybe some need to spend less time trying to be teachers
or falsely accusing to make room for growth

 

[eternally-gratefull]

amen EG

it is a shame twist the words of truth


maybe some need to spend less time trying to be teachers
or falsely accusing to make room for growth

Anytime we get focus of ourselves and how good we are or should be, and start focusing on serving others. We will be amazed as to how much more morally upright we are. Instead of trying to push for moral goodness. Lead by example. Thats what Christ did, and Paul did, and all the rest did.

 

[Ralph-]

Jesus will do what he promised to do when he comes back, for those who are alive, he will go get ALL HIS SHEEP. Even the ones who strayed away, why? Because he promised to. And HIS SHEEP HEAR HIS VOICE. And THEY FOLLOW HIM.

Okay, so if I DO 'live like this' and stray away from God I am saved even though Paul said those who do that will not inherit the kingdom. That is what you are saying.

See? This is what I've been talking about. You can't have it both ways and then bash me with the side that is convenient to do that with at the time. You claim that believers will not 'live like this' but then turn right around and say 'if they do...'. That is why rational discussion is impossible with you people.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I posted what he said. Either you want to see it or you don't.

And we both posted that you did not understand what he meant, and proved you wrong.

It is a dread horse. Leave it be, because it is over with,

 

[John146]

Let's use something more realistic. Pornography for example. The person who just does it and thinks it's okay because salvation is not by works, or doesn't care for whatever reason, he's living a lifestyle of lust and adultery. That's what he wants. He is rejecting the grace of God and will be rejected when Jesus comes back.

On the other hand, the person who is falling into it, struggling with it, hating it (but liking it), repenting, then falling again, that person is demonstrating by his resistance that he has some measure of the grace of God in his life, and wants the grace of God in his life. He's learning, he's seeking. Just the fact that he wants to be free is evidence of some measure of God's grace at work in him, before or after salvation, that he has not rejected. God can and will be merciful to that person.

So, a believer can live in those things under the conditions you've stated above. And by the way, inheritance is not the same as entrance.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Okay, so if I DO 'live like this' and stray away from God I am saved even though Paul said those who do that will not inherit the kingdom. That is what you are saying.

See there you go again, “IF I DO”

God said in his word “YOU CAN’T DO” so there is no “IF” about it, Your the one adding the word iF which is against Gods word.

See? This is what I've been talking about. You can't have it both ways and then bash me with the side that is convenient to do that with at the time. You claim that believers will not 'live like this' but then turn right around and say 'if they do...'. That is why rational discussion is impossible with you people.

What I see is you placing faith in self. And denying the word of God. You have people who HAVE FAITH IN GOD walking in sin, when God said they CAN NOT WALK IN SIN.

if a child of God can not walk in sin, they can not repent of their Christianity and go back to where they repent4ed from to begin with.

Again, If you think they can, I can just wonder if you ever experienced what they have.

 

[Ralph-]

Yes it does matter, it matters a whole lot

because of they LOST It because they fell back into sin, then they had to EARN salvation by not falling, and lost it because they FAILED to keep themselves clean. Thats legalism. And no different than what the pharisees taught. And works cancel out grace.

Grace is unmerited, it means we will NEVER LIVE UP TO GODS STANDARD. If we could live u- to Gods standard, we would STOP NEEDING GRACE, and have EARNED OUR SALVATION.

It does not mean we love sin, it does not mean we excuse sin, it means we KNOW GODS STANDARD (CHRIST SET IT/PERFECION) and we can not LIVE UP TO IT.

So what do we do? Be defeated because we can not live up to Gods standard? NO, WE TRUST HIMN, KEEP PUSHING FORWARD, KNOWING he can still use us, and one day WE WILL BE GLORIFIED.

What we do not do? Eat poison (live in sin) and enjoy it, because we can not, it is no longer our nature.

You yourself said that the person who falls was never saved to begin with. But then you say you can never lose your salvation so you'll still be saved if you do fall. I don't need an opinion either way to know you can not have it both ways. What is clear is the person who is not changed in this life when Jesus returns will be resurrected to condemnation, not to eternal life in the kingdom with Jesus, because that's what the Bible says.

 

[Ralph-]

And we both posted that you did not understand what he meant, and proved you wrong.

It is a dread horse. Leave it be, because it is over with,

I knew you would try to twist it to not mean what he said. I even said you'd probably try to do that. Shame, shame......God is watching. He knows.

 

[PennEd]

Lord, open the eyes of the blind.

Why can't we simply, and purely understand that we MUST be born again?

Once we are born again, we are a new creation, inhabited by the Holy Spirit.

HE will transform us.
Why do some insist that THEY must transform themselves?

 

[Ralph-]

So, a believer can live in those things under the conditions you've stated above. And by the way, inheritance is not the same as entrance.

A believer can not 'live like this' and expect to be saved when Jesus comes back. By his life he is showing that he is rejecting the grace of God, not receiving it.

Revelation says that if you are not in the kingdom you are outside of it and going to the lake of fire-Revelation 21:7-8, Revelation 22:14-15. There is no resting place between the lake of fire and the kingdom of God. Don't take false comfort that a so called believer can remain in their sin as a matter of lifestyle and just be denied entry into the kingdom but also not go to the lake of fire.

 

[John146]

A believer can not 'live like this' and expect to be saved when Jesus comes back. By his life he is showing that he is rejecting the grace of God, not receiving it.

Revelation says that if you are not in the kingdom you are outside of it and going to the lake of fire-Revelation 21:7-8, Revelation 22:14-15. There is no resting place between the lake of fire and the kingdom of God. Don't take false comfort that a so called believer can remain in their sin as a matter of lifestyle and just be denied entry into the kingdom but also not go to the lake of fire.

That's not what you said in post.

"On the other hand, the person who is falling into it, struggling with it, hating it (but liking it), repenting, then falling again, that person is demonstrating by his resistance that he has some measure of the grace of God in his life, and wants the grace of God in his life."

 

[Ralph-]

Lord, open the eyes of the blind.

Why can't we simply, and purely understand that we MUST be born again?

Once we are born again, we are a new creation, inhabited by the Holy Spirit.

HE will transform us.
Why do some insist that THEY must transform themselves?

You were doing good until you got to the part about 'transforming themselves'. Who is saying that?

Being born again is evidenced by not 'living like this' (adultery, lust, fornication, hatred, greed...). There is no such thing as being born again and living in adultery, lust, fornication, hatred, drunkenness, etc. To do that is to reject God's grace and not be born again. You can't reject the grace of God and live in it at the same time. Slavery to sin as a matter of lifestyle shows you to be in rejection of God's grace in salvation and holy living. You can't have it both ways. That is not the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Ralph-]

That's not what you said in post.

"On the other hand, the person who is falling into it, struggling with it, hating it (but liking it), repenting, then falling again, that person is demonstrating by his resistance that he has some measure of the grace of God in his life, and wants the grace of God in his life."

You didn't understand what I was saying. Go back and read it carefully. I explained the difference between living in sin in a rejection of God's grace and fighting with it within God's grace.

 

[Chester]

What is clear is the person who is not changed in this life when Jesus returns will be resurrected to condemnation, not to eternal life in the kingdom with Jesus, because that's what the Bible says.

Amen and amen and amen

 

[preacher4truth]

Not sure why folks argue day in and day out with a person who lies, misrepresents and attacks others with falsities. Why? Brothers, she's trolling you. We are to obey Scripture and ignore these people. God bless! Spend some time in the Word, with brothers and sisters who know the LORD and defend the truth! I love you all who know the truth, appreciate your fight against this too, but enough is enough my brothers and sisters!

 

[Ralph-]

You have people who HAVE FAITH IN GOD walking in sin, when God said they CAN NOT WALK IN SIN.

And you say if people who have faith in God do walk in sin they are still saved. But here you say God said they can not walk in sin. You're going to have to make up your mind some day about this, both can't be true.

What you need to do is just accept what we know is true beyond debate, that the person who 'lives like this' will NOT inherit the kingdom of God. That part is not up for debate. Grace doesn't make it so that isn't true for some people who 'live like this'. Grace makes it so you can not be one of those kinds of people who 'live like this'. Understand?

 

[Chester]

I said a believer can not LIVE IN SIN (live like he did before he was saved) not that they can not sin. And actually it was not me who said it, I am just repeating what the ASpoastle John said.


He asked you, can you answer?

He asked me? LOL I wasn't even a part of the conversation before - he wasn't asking me!

Well, I am not afraid to answer:

John says very clearly that a believer will not "sin" (Greek present tense - that is - keep on sinning, or living a lifestyle of sin). But I also believe that God is not up there in heaven trying to find sins and mark them down to send the believer to hell. He does not do that! He is ongoingly forgiving the sins of the believer. So the question here is not if one, or two, or three, or four, etc. sins is what makes sin a "lifestyle". God isn't counting.

So what is John saying (I John 3)? He means that the believer (who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit ) and sin are incongruent/incompatible. If you saw a child of the president picking his nose and snacking on the contents during the inauguration you would say that is "incongruent, incompatible". A child of the president should not do that!

So John is trying to say that a child of God should not sin!