Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Prsacher4truth you make what appears to be very ignorant statements about what is in the Bible. Are you truly that ignorant or are you continually testing the knowledge of others?? Either way you have a problem.

What is it that CC always brings out the worse in people? Does anyone see a conversation point here? A biblical presentation which supports his or her view? Why is it people who CLAIM to be Christian think it is ok to belittle people to make a point? It just goes to show how a lot of people see Christians as very proud puffed up people. It hurts our reputation and Gods. I know I can be guilty of it at times also.. I just wish we would be able to help each other out so we do not do this stuff..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nope. Doesn't sound good news to me. This is supposed to bring people "joy" ? Lol.

If we look at Jews in Jesus day, Seems it brought a lot of pride, arrogance, and hate (directed at so called “unclean” people) because it gave them a false sense of security and they had to work so hard to get there.

it is also why they hated Jesus, and he said all their “hard work” amounted to nothing in the grand scheme of things, They were still spiritually unclean and needed a savior.

Sadly, we see it in many so called Christian churches also.

 

[preacher4truth]

Absolutely not. Are you so ignorant of the Old Testament that you never read or heard about the yearly animal secrifices? The temple had an alter where the sacrifices were made by killing the animal and burning it. A lamb without blemish was the preferred sacrifice therefore one of the names of Jesus was the Lamb of God. He was without the blemish of sin.

So they were saved by keeping the law and the sacrifices?

 

[preacher4truth]

Prsacher4truth you make what appears to be very ignorant statements about what is in the Bible. Are you truly that ignorant or are you continually testing the knowledge of others?? Either way you have a problem.

I make ignorant statements about what is in the Bible? Point me to where I did this? I think you'll find there is no evidence of this.

I only have a problem? I have more that one, friend!

 

[stonesoffire]

EG

you have said over and over that the answer is to keep ones mind on the Spirit. That the law cannot bring condemnation to us who are in Christ Jesus.

Paul said it clearly in Romans 8

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.


Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

And gives the way to be spiritually minded in Ephesians 5


ph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.


Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.




Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;


Eph 5:19 Speaking toyourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;


Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;


Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.


Life in the Spirit versus law and death. Jesus overthrew one and gives us the other. And condemnation has no reign.

 

[preacher4truth]

EG

you have said over and over that the answer is to keep ones mind on the Spirit. That the law cannot bring condemnation to us who are in Christ Jesus.

Paul said it clearly in Romans 8

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.


Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

And gives the way to be spiritually minded in Ephesians 5


ph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.


Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.




Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;


Eph 5:19 Speaking toyourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;


Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;


Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.


Life in the Spirit versus law and death. Jesus overthrew one and gives us the other. And condemnation has no reign.

Yes. "After the flesh" denotes the state of being lost.

 

[stonesoffire]

Yes. "After the flesh" denotes the state of being lost.

Exactly. It has to be that because we are no longer flesh but Spirit.

The struggle comes from not knowing what we are and our trying to get into what Jesus has already made us within. Our flesh has been cut off, circumcised, the tree of knowing good and evil has had the axe applied to it in our inner being, and the tree of life is planted and fruitful. The tree being Jesus Himself through the person of Holy Spirit. We are Holy because He is.

Its how i see it anyway. Works for me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes. "After the flesh" denotes the state of being lost.

It does? I disagree, I see it as meaning the state of being self focused, and not God focused.

Thats why paul said when he sins, it is not him sinning, but the flesh. We still sin because our sin nature or “flesh nature” as some call it, has not been removed, It has been defeated, as in we no longer are bound to it, But it is still there. And we must learn to crucify it. Which is called becoming mature.

A baby christian is going to have to fight the flesh more than a mature or adult Christian. But as Paul said in romans 7, even he in this late stage of maturity still had times of falling to the flesh (sin)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly. It has to be that because we are no longer flesh but Spirit.

The struggle comes from not knowing what we are and our trying to get into what Jesus has already made us within. Our flesh has been cut off, circumcised, the tree of knowing good and evil has had the axe applied to it in our inner being, and the tree of life is planted and fruitful. The tree being Jesus Himself through the person of Holy Spirit. We are Holy because He is.

Its how i see it anyway. Works for me.

I agree, we are no longer flesh but spirit. So th flesh has no more power over us, But it is still there, We still have to realise that it can come when we are not expecting it, and boom, We wonder why we just commited that sin. We can not go around thinking it is dead so we no longer have to worry about it.

Romans 8 is our power. But how many of us do romans 8 24/7? I know i do not.. I try, but every night, if I think of my day, I am reminded of the times I did not focus on the spirit, but I was self (flesh) focused, and and I realise in those times, I was in danger and succeptable to committing a sin or two. And in reality, I was in sin to begin with because i was focused and serving self. Not God.

 

[stonesoffire]

It does? I disagree, I see it as meaning the state of being self focused, and not God focused.

Thats why paul said when he sins, it is not him sinning, but the flesh. We still sin because our sin nature or “flesh nature” as some call it, has not been removed, It has been defeated, as in we no longer are bound to it, But it is still there. And we must learn to crucify it. Which is called becoming mature.

A baby christian is going to have to fight the flesh more than a mature or adult Christian. But as Paul said in romans 7, even he in this late stage of maturity still had times of falling to the flesh (sin)

We don't crucify the flesh. We reckon it dead. You are making the same mistake I did for years EG.

 

[stonesoffire]

I agree, we are no longer flesh but spirit. So th flesh has no more power over us, But it is still there, We still have to realise that it can come when we are not expecting it, and boom, We wonder why we just commited that sin. We can not go around thinking it is dead so we no longer have to worry about it.

Romans 8 is our power. But how many of us do romans 8 24/7? I know i do not.. I try, but every night, if I think of my day, I am reminded of the times I did not focus on the spirit, but I was self (flesh) focused, and and I realise in those times, I was in danger and succeptable to committing a sin or two. And in reality, I was in sin to begin with because i was focused and serving self. Not God.

Well, here is where Pentecost is our help. We can pray in the Spirit all day if we so desire. He bypasses our mind, has awakened our Spirit, and we speak out of the anointing. Is why it's called the refreshing EG.

But, is another topic. But really is not.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We don't crucify the flesh. We reckon it dead. You are making the same mistake I did for years EG.

I see what your saying and agree, we should consider it dead, But as jesus said, we must still take up our cross. That is called crucifying the flesh, or crucify self, give up our rights, and love and serve others.

Which is what jesus did, when he took up his cross.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, here is where Pentecost is our help. We can pray in the Spirit all day if we so desire. He bypasses our mind, has awakened our Spirit, and we speak out of the anointing. Is why it's called the refreshing EG.

But, is another topic. But really is not.

We can pray for the spirit. But if we do not set our mind on the spirit (Gods will) and let go, or crucify our own will (flesh) praying for the spirit will not help much,,

 

[stonesoffire]

Listening to Christian music while working is a great help too. I often turn on joyfm while working in the kitchen.

 

[stonesoffire]

We can pray for the spirit. But if we do not set our mind on the spirit (Gods will) and let go, or crucify our own will (flesh) praying for the spirit will not help much,,

I dont know what you mean by pray for the Spirit. I'm talking about praying in the Spirit. Tongues. I don't really like that word though. Our Spiritual language is better.

And it's not weak by any means. This has great power when we pray this way often. There's no effort to it EG.

Again though, I don't want to make a debate on this, and that is how it will end up. Am just trying to help you. You can ask for the baptism and language. We all have a right to the gifts.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I dont know what you mean by pray for the Spirit. I'm talking about praying in the Spirit. Tongues. I don't really like that word though. Our Spiritual language is better.

And it's not weak by any means. This has great power when we pray this way often. There's no effort to it EG.

Again though, I don't want to make a debate on this, and that is how it will end up. Am just trying to help you. You can ask for the baptism and language. We all have a right to the gifts.

I think it is better to leave this alone, will just say I disagree, and leave it at that Love ya sis!

 

[preacher4truth]

It does? I disagree, I see it as meaning the state of being self focused, and not God focused.

I know you do. The context is the lost, not the saved. People use this as an excuse of their sin, but nothing there supports this as a believer. Not saying you're making this excuse, so don't flip out, I know what you're trying to say but it does not fly.

That is the argument Paul is bringing, he is showing the difference between the lost and the saved. Your view is fairly new to the scene and isn't a view in church history, nor does the context of Romans support it.

What you're making the passage say is that you can make yourself pleasing to God by not being according to the flesh. And that if you decide, when you feel like it, to be after the spirit, then you make God happy. That rejects the fact we are always pleasing to God because of Christ, not self.

 

[TruthTalk]

Listening to Christian music while working is a great help too. I often turn on joyfm while working in the kitchen.

Thank you Stonesoffire, I put this link on my desktop, works wonderfully good and live steaming all the way to my home in California. The JOY FM - Listen LIVE! They are playing excellent Christmas music.

 

[BillG]

I know you do. The context is the lost, not the saved. People use this as an excuse of their sin, but nothing there supports this as a believer. Not saying you're making this excuse, so don't flip out, I know what you're trying to say but it does not fly.

That is the argument Paul is bringing, he is showing the difference between the lost and the saved. Your view is fairly new to the scene and isn't a view in church history, nor does the context of Romans support it.

What you're making the passage say is that you can make yourself pleasing to God by not being according to the flesh. And that if you decide, when you feel like it, to be after the spirit, then you make God happy. That rejects the fact we are always pleasing to God because of Christ, not self.

This concept I struggle with and always have.
Are we always pleasing to God.
Does that differ from God always being pleased with us?

I struggle with the fact that I may be pleasing to God.

 

[stonesoffire]

Thank you Stonesoffire, I put this link on my desktop, works wonderfully good and live steaming all the way to my home in California. The JOY FM - Listen LIVE! They are playing excellent Christmas music.

You are so welcome! My car radio is set to it too. No one is allowed to touch the setting. Lol