Not By Works

[Demi777]

Am i the only one who notices that since phart hasnt come back, things are much more peaceful even when people try to correct and or rebuke something. Suddenly i like reading through here
Huuuugs

 

[Magenta]

Amen! It's not our place to tell people how to live, or interpret things for them. I cannot point a finger one way or the other, for I know i'll have 3 pointing straight back at me. I can't tell someone how to live. I can only live how the Holy Spirit intends for me to live, and what God's word tells me, and that's how it will be with all believers. If the Holy Spirit compels you to stop smoking, then stop it! If it's drinking, then stop it! If it's gambling, then stop it! That's the beauty of the Comforter, He gives us that wisdom and guidance along the way

That is part of the beauty of the 12 step program We share our experience, strength, and hope, without judging or condemning others, offering suggestions when they ask for help. Of course there are principles that are given as musts, but they are not forced on people, who often come looking for help when they have hit bottom, and have what some call the gift of desperation, giving them a willingness they may not have had before. Many come to the rooms carrying a major resentment toward God and the church, though even atheists and other hard-core non-believers have eventually given their life to Christ if they are willing to stick around and do the work encompassed in the steps, which are solidly Biblically based, and God centered. As Bill said, those who have walked in the same problems come alongside those suffering, being there to lend a helping hand, offer support and encouragement, and share their own stories, which inspire others.

 

[MichaelOwen]

That is part of the beauty of the 12 step program We share our experience, strength, and hope, without judging or condemning others, offering suggestions when they ask for help. Of course there are principles that are given as musts, but they are not forced on people, who often come looking for help when they have hit bottom, and have what some call the gift of desperation, giving them a willingness they may not have had before. Many come to the rooms carrying a major resentment toward God and the church, though even atheists and other hard-core non-believers have eventually given their life to Christ if they are willing to stick around and do the work encompassed in the steps, which are solidly Biblically based, and God centered. As Bill said, those who have walked in the same problems come alongside those suffering, being there to lend a helping hand, offer support and encouragement, and share their own stories, which inspire others.

Amen, yes ma'am!

 

[TruthTalk]

No, I'm not leaving Christ. The church is in crisis right now. There are no true meetings of the saints. The church has been overrun by unbelievers. How do you fellowship with someone who isn't like you and wants to live for and please God and only gives lip service to the grace of God? You can't of course. And I'm not expected to.

Here we are witnessing Phart taking the seat of Jesus Christ and Judging the entire "Church to be in crisis." First of all that is a false blanket statement and beside which who appointed Phart Judge and Jury over the Church. Last I heard was the "gates of hell would not prevail against the Church," Matthew16:18.

Quote Phart: "How do you fellowship with someone who isn't like you and wants to live for and please God and only gives lip service to the grace of God? You can't of course. And I'm not expected to."

Honestly Phart, you need to bring your judgmental speech down a notch or two or three. And how is it you are able to know all of these people who attend all of these churches that are in a crisis, are you all knowing and have all wisdom like our Savior.

 

[BillG]

Thats why I love my church, I never understood true discipleship and accountability until I found this church, and I had been to so many churches all across the country, Its sad.

And that's why I love my church and not sure why he does but he is using me to come alongside broken hurt and damaged people. Both Christians and non Christians.
I walked alongside a guy with severe bipolar.
A hurting guy.
He believed in God, of the NT and not the OT.
He believed in Jesus but only as a good man.

He tried to take his life a few times. The last time he tried he actually died (had cpr 3 times)
When he woke up he said "********** God why the********** am I not dead?

His language was colourful to say the least.
Even when we met. But you know what I loved it cause he was being honest.

Anyway to cut a long story short after many months he called me.
Very distressed, he asked me 'If I don't become a Christian will you reject me?
After reassuring him that I loved him and was glad to have him as a friend the conversation on the phone ended.

He called me again 2 days later and asked if we could meet.

We did. If was apparent that he was very agitated.
"I need to feel connection to my God but I can't connect why not"

I just said "You wont because the connection is Jesus"

He said "Well how do I pray, what do I say?
I talked to him about the verses in Romans, if you confess.

So he said again "What shall I say?
I said just lay everything before him, what ever comes to mind.

So a man sat on his chair started taking to God and then his whole being just poured out.

He ended up on his knees, tears following, snot pouring and colourful language as he expressed himself.

Then he said "Jesus I need you so much, will you take this ***********(I said yes Jesus will) then he said Jesus I make you my lord and saviour.

Mate when he got off his knees I saw a totally different man.
His face had changed. He said to me "What's just happened, I'm tingling, I feel warm, I feel so lite.
He had a massive smile on his face.

I just said "Now your connected to God through Jesus"

Then he said, actually prayed "Thankyou God you kept me alive for this moment, now I know why you didn't want me to die"

I have to be honest, I was absolutely gobsmacked.
I spent the rest of the day saying to God "What on earth?

Anyway sorry for the long post.

I just wanted to make a point as such.

Love people where they are at, whether believers or not.

Never impose what we think is correct but allow God to work.

I will never ever forget a broken man's face turn into a face that just exuded a meeting with God.

This man is now being used by God, even though the odd colourful word still happens.

 

[beastslayer1970]

I am always so grateful for my own church when I hear of all the false teachings others have been subject to in their congregations, to the point where they say there is no true meeting of the saints. The funny thing is, the one who is going around condemning people and saying they need to repent of their sin, justifies his own, and continues to lie about people. He obviously has an agenda, and refuses to repent of his sin. Will you rebuke him and call him to repentance?

First of all, I am sorry if there was a slander on you. I did not read the thread where you were accused, so I do not have total understanding of what he said and you said. My only knowledge was what was posted here and to be honest, I cannot take any side in that fight.

Second, Do you or anyone else really think there is an impact to rebuke, reproof and correction on a chat board? If I was in a position of spiritual authority in real life over phart and he did this to you in person, I would rush to offer correction.


Not one person here, including myself as any real life spiritual authority over another, despite what we all do.I have to constantly remind myself of this, myself and moderate my posts accordingly

We simply cannot allow our feelers to get this hurt on a chat board. Sorry if that is met with resistance, hurt or anger, but it is how I see it.

 

[beastslayer1970]

Well also to add to it, if you don't make them feel welcome in your church, how are you going to add to the faith? We're there to be shining examples in front of those, even those who may be lost. If a church doesn't make you feel welcome and give you a right hand of fellowship, and it doesn't show any liveliness in God, that church needs prayer and remembrance. Too many churches are going the way of the world these days, and it's causing many to depart from the faith, mainly because they are not following God's word.

good post and I agree

 

[beastslayer1970]

Posting what? Not sure of your question.

Questioning ones salvation?

As you read the following quote, Remember, Phart believes one can walk away in UNBELIEF and in doing so they have lost salvation.


According to this quote. People who watch certain tv shows have walked away from God in unbelief.

Thus in his own words, he states they have LOST SALVATION.

Ok, I stand corrected and did not see that fully, so sorry for that.

I do not believe they would loose salvation, however, I believe the love walk, heart condition and intimacy with the Lord would be reduced. People can claim all day certain things of the world does not affect them. To a certain degree this would be true, but after awhile the conscience is seared.

 

[beastslayer1970]

Well it wouldn't matter what i watched though. When God calls i drop all and go. I may enjoy the show but when God wants me, i go

I am blessed by your answer to this and it was what I was hoping to hear. It was not a trap as much as it was designed to show someone confusing spiritual maturity for an unbelieving heart, the truth.

 

[Ariel82]

Thats said, Had hope for you, like I did peter and many others.

But pride runs deep.. I have witnessed it to many times in my life from a child on.. It never gets any better.
[/B][/COLOR]

Never say never. God saved Saul and he was killing Christians.

How many times do people murder others in their hearts I wonder?

 

[BillG]

Amen! It's not our place to tell people how to live, or interpret things for them. I cannot point a finger one way or the other, for I know i'll have 3 pointing straight back at me. I can't tell someone how to live. I can only live how the Holy Spirit intends for me to live, and what God's word tells me, and that's how it will be with all believers. If the Holy Spirit compels you to stop smoking, then stop it! If it's drinking, then stop it! If it's gambling, then stop it! That's the beauty of the Comforter, He gives us that wisdom and guidance along the way

Amen and amen and amen.
I suffered a severe gambling addiction for 30 years. Even though I hated it and begged every day for release.

It only came when I one day I said to God "Why do I gamble"

Then he said "At last note now we can deal with the cause of the effect"
Boy it was painful and hard.

I haven't gambled for 7 years and not had an inkling to do so.

The sad part was that I couldn't for all those years talk to someone for fear of condemnation.

Then praise God someone I didn't know sought this guy out who had gone MIA.

There is always a cause for the effect. This guy focused on that.

That's what Jesus did.

We should be the same

 

[beastslayer1970]

I am not sure what that has to do with me saying If God stood in front of me today me seeing all the sin I not only did not know or did not understand, but the sins I actually struggled with.

even John at the end of his life, fell on his face out of fear of a holy God/.

The Bible says there will be a day when ALL our sin is exposed. And I believe it.

All good man, really it is. I was just asking questions, sorry if they were not clear.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And that's why I love my church and not sure why he does but he is using me to come alongside broken hurt and damaged people. Both Christians and non Christians.
I walked alongside a guy with severe bipolar.
A hurting guy.
He believed in God, of the NT and not the OT.
He believed in Jesus but only as a good man.

He tried to take his life a few times. The last time he tried he actually died (had cpr 3 times)
When he woke up he said "********** God why the********** am I not dead?

His language was colourful to say the least.
Even when we met. But you know what I loved it cause he was being honest.

Anyway to cut a long story short after many months he called me.
Very distressed, he asked me 'If I don't become a Christian will you reject me?
After reassuring him that I loved him and was glad to have him as a friend the conversation on the phone ended.

He called me again 2 days later and asked if we could meet.

We did. If was apparent that he was very agitated.
"I need to feel connection to my God but I can't connect why not"

I just said "You wont because the connection is Jesus"

He said "Well how do I pray, what do I say?
I talked to him about the verses in Romans, if you confess.

So he said again "What shall I say?
I said just lay everything before him, what ever comes to mind.

So a man sat on his chair started taking to God and then his whole being just poured out.

He ended up on his knees, tears following, snot pouring and colourful language as he expressed himself.

Then he said "Jesus I need you so much, will you take this ***********(I said yes Jesus will) then he said Jesus I make you my lord and saviour.

Mate when he got off his knees I saw a totally different man.
His face had changed. He said to me "What's just happened, I'm tingling, I feel warm, I feel so lite.
He had a massive smile on his face.

I just said "Now your connected to God through Jesus"

Then he said, actually prayed "Thankyou God you kept me alive for this moment, now I know why you didn't want me to die"

I have to be honest, I was absolutely gobsmacked.
I spent the rest of the day saying to God "What on earth?

Anyway sorry for the long post.

I just wanted to make a point as such.

Love people where they are at, whether believers or not.

Never impose what we think is correct but allow God to work.

I will never ever forget a broken man's face turn into a face that just exuded a meeting with God.

This man is now being used by God, even though the odd colourful word still happens.

We have some people in my church most churches (like Pharts church) would have given up on, who are now on fire for God. Some hold leadership positions, and many help others who struggled with the same sins that defeated them for years. Even after they first came to christ.


If someone came at them like Phart. They would have left. End never come back, they di dnot need judged, they needed healed. And that is what God did, He healed them through love and proper chastening. Not through judgment and fear.

All we have to do is look through history, Fear never helped anyone do anything, Maybe for awhile. But eventually you had a rebellion. Because it is not our nature to submit to fear

 

[Ariel82]

First of all, I am sorry if there was a slander on you. I did not read the thread where you were accused, so I do not have total understanding of what he said and you said. My only knowledge was what was posted here and to be honest, I cannot take any side in that fight.

Second, Do you or anyone else really think there is an impact to rebuke, reproof and correction on a chat board? If I was in a position of spiritual authority in real life over phart and he did this to you in person, I would rush to offer correction.


Not one person here, including myself as any real life spiritual authority over another, despite what we all do.I have to constantly remind myself of this, myself and moderate my posts accordingly

We simply cannot allow our feelers to get this hurt on a chat board. Sorry if that is met with resistance, hurt or anger, but it is how I see it.

I don't think people have that much self control over their emotions to "allow" it disallow being hurt.

I know I have Not. I also know that a rebuke by a friend even if They dont have "spiritual authority" over me is needed and make a difference in my life because I pray and consider the merit of any correct. Sometimes I agree and sometimes I disagree but it does make me stop and pray about it.

The only person who has true spiritual authority over me is God and His Holy spirit. Everyone else is just my beloved brother or sister or an unbeliever who needs to meet Jesus and accept His salvation.

 

[MichaelOwen]

We have some people in my church most churches (like Pharts church) would have given up on, who are now on fire for God. Some hold leadership positions, and many help others who struggled with the same sins that defeated them for years. Even after they first came to christ.


If someone came at them like Phart. They would have left. End never come back, they di dnot need judged, they needed healed. And that is what God did, He healed them through love and proper chastening. Not through judgment and fear.

All we have to do is look through history, Fear never helped anyone do anything, Maybe for awhile. But eventually you had a rebellion. Because it is not our nature to submit to fear

Aerial82 put a blog out, and you should go read it. What PHart said in a post, really, REALLY just makes your anger go nearly through the roof.

 

[beastslayer1970]

Do you go out in the world and openly judge someone youy see who is struggling with sin?

I understand, if someone is sinning against you, or they are sinning a sin which may endanger themselves or others, there is a time to call them out on the spot

But is this what the Bible tells us to do.

and are we to question ones salvation if they have a particular sin? Or help them overcome that sin,

Sorry if I was not clear, most of my replies on this topic deal with how we grow & disciple fellow believers in the local church, not the world.

I never once said we go on witch hunts in the world and expose sin in non-believers, nor do we go on witch hunts in the church and expose sin in believers and then tell someone they lost salvation.

The darkness cannot comprehend the light, so why would we go openly judge them?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok, I stand corrected and did not see that fully, so sorry for that.

I do not believe they would loose salvation, however, I believe the love walk, heart condition and intimacy with the Lord would be reduced. People can claim all day certain things of the world does not affect them. To a certain degree this would be true, but after awhile the conscience is seared.

I again would have to say, different people act different ways, Stephen king was a master writer. many said he was evil (I was even told I must not be saved because I read him) but I can tell fantasy from reality. He never caused me to walk away from God. Stop loving others, or become a maniac myself.

Yet some people can not read him, they would not react in a good way., and it may cause them to do not good things,

we also have the old adage, if it causes you to sin, don;t do it.

So some people should not do it, Unit does not mean we have to get legalistic and say no one should.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

All good man, really it is. I was just asking questions, sorry if they were not clear.

And forgive me if I misunderstood you.

 

[beastslayer1970]

Amen! It's not our place to tell people how to live, or interpret things for them. I cannot point a finger one way or the other, for I know i'll have 3 pointing straight back at me. I can't tell someone how to live. I can only live how the Holy Spirit intends for me to live, and what God's word tells me, and that's how it will be with all believers. If the Holy Spirit compels you to stop smoking, then stop it! If it's drinking, then stop it! If it's gambling, then stop it! That's the beauty of the Comforter, He gives us that wisdom and guidance along the way

This is spot on 100% correct.

I would also suggest that every Paul needs a Barnabas & Timothy in their life. One to mentor and one to let speak into their life.

Each man/woman of God should have accountability partners and an elder that can at any time speak into their life and about anything.

 

[BillG]

Ok, I stand corrected and did not see that fully, so sorry for that.

I do not believe they would loose salvation, however, I believe the love walk, heart condition and intimacy with the Lord would be reduced. People can claim all day certain things of the world does not affect them. To a certain degree this would be true, but after awhile the conscience is seared.

I totally agree with you. Our relationship with the Father is strained.
That's why he wants us to confess.

I think mainly it's for our benefit.