Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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PHart
Guest
I see you are resisting the obvious in the passage. I guessed that you would. But the point is, I have seen a person who was definitely a saved, born again Christian (by the same way Peter knew the gentiles were saved) who then walked away from the faith and said they did not believe anymore. Your problem is you just happen to have not seen that so you conclude it can't happen. But it happens.
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PHart
Guest
IOW, continue to trust in God. This is exactly what I've been saying all along, lol, but dcon, eg, truthtalk, and VCO say that's a works gospel. How absurd.
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PHart
Guest
That is exactly what you are supposed to do. But did you know that many in the church think if you are doing this then you are not relying on the Spirit and it's you doing it and, therefore, you are trying to save yourself by your works. Seriously.
Not entirely true. NONE of the people you've mentioned have said that to keep trusting in God, is a works-based gospel...
YOU have maintained all along that we need to "keep presently believing" in God. Problem is, when we have that initial belief on God, we are saved. Once and for all, not just until we screw up and He takes it away.. After we're saved, it's a natural thing to want to keep believing in God.
HOWEVER, just because you "presently" believe today, then what about tomorrow? You don't know today, whether something will happen to rock your faith so much that you stop believing tomorrow.
Only God knows why a person stops believing, and if it's temporary or forever. I've had things happen to me that shook my faith so hard, that I walked away from God for awhile. But I never stopped believing in Him.
A person needs to keep believing in Jesus, that's true. BUT NOT TO STAY SAVED. It's natural to keep believing. But YOU do it for the purpose of keeping yourself saved on a daily basis. And that, is what Dcon, EG and whoever else, calls a works-based gospel. Because it is, because you're working to stay saved. But Jesus already paid that price. So switch your mindset from "okay I gotta believe to stay saved, and I gotta believe tomorrow".. Switch it to "thank God Jesus died to save me from all my sins". Stop trying to do the work that Jesus has already done for you.
By working to keep yourself saved, you negate what He did on the cross. That's the precise reason that He died, to save you, and me, everyone, from their sins.
YOU have maintained all along that we need to "keep presently believing" in God. Problem is, when we have that initial belief on God, we are saved. Once and for all, not just until we screw up and He takes it away.. After we're saved, it's a natural thing to want to keep believing in God.
HOWEVER, just because you "presently" believe today, then what about tomorrow? You don't know today, whether something will happen to rock your faith so much that you stop believing tomorrow. Only God knows why a person stops believing, and if it's temporary or forever. I've had things happen to me that shook my faith so hard, that I walked away from God for awhile. But I never stopped believing in Him.
A person needs to keep believing in Jesus, that's true. BUT NOT TO STAY SAVED. It's natural to keep believing. But YOU do it for the purpose of keeping yourself saved on a daily basis. And that, is what Dcon, EG and whoever else, calls a works-based gospel. Because it is, because you're working to stay saved. But Jesus already paid that price. So switch your mindset from "okay I gotta believe to stay saved, and I gotta believe tomorrow".. Switch it to "thank God Jesus died to save me from all my sins".
Stop trying to do the work that Jesus has already done for you. By working to keep yourself saved, you negate what He did on the cross. That's the precise reason that He died, to save you, and me, everyone, from their sins.
The only absurd thing, is that you're working to stay saved, when Jesus already accomplished that on the cross..
It is obvious you neither care for the truth or have the ability to recognize sarcasm....here I will post it again for all to see....and everyone who knows me and has read anything I have posted in CC for over 4 years knows that I do not push this....and you wonder why I lit you up above....the truth is, you oppose the truth and in hypocrisy make snide little remarks to attack ALL who disagree with your dogma....
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Obviously we do not have to obey 1 law found in scripture, do as we please, live in sin and like the devil because of grace and eternal security.............shakes head at your incessant push of the law man.....!
You guys must wear diapers everywhere you go if he or you take that as an insult....here I will post it again.....
And you wonder why many see you as a Pharisee or Lawyer pushing some pseudo blend gospel.......
Not entirely true. NONE of the people you've mentioned have said that to keep trusting in God, is a works-based gospel...
YOU have maintained all along that we need to "keep presently believing" in God. Problem is, when we have that initial belief on God, we are saved. Once and for all, not just until we screw up and He takes it away.. After we're saved, it's a natural thing to want to keep believing in God.
Only God knows why a person stops believing, and if it's temporary or forever. I've had things happen to me that shook my faith so hard, that I walked away from God for awhile. But I never stopped believing in Him.
A person needs to keep believing in Jesus, that's true. BUT NOT TO STAY SAVED. It's natural to keep believing. But YOU do it for the purpose of keeping yourself saved on a daily basis. And that, is what Dcon, EG and whoever else, calls a works-based gospel. Because it is, because you're working to stay saved. But Jesus already paid that price. So switch your mindset from "okay I gotta believe to stay saved, and I gotta believe tomorrow".. Switch it to "thank God Jesus died to save me from all my sins".
By working to keep yourself saved, you negate what He did on the cross. That's the precise reason that He died, to save you, and me, everyone, from their sins.
Amen Blue........and I agree.......totally......One cannot be UNBORN once they have BEEN BORN.....it is idiotic to even think that it is possible.....and even more ridiculous to think that when GOD is involved and that birth is spiritual and of seed that is INCORRUPTABLE and ETERNAL.......shakes head at the idiocy of that view.....!
Since when is having faith in God is considered a 'work'? Your analysis on this thread is right on target Lady Blue.
I also added, first, that I ask for help. This is because when I tried, for years, to do it in my own willpower, it just got worse and worse. That's when I learned one day, finally, to ask for what I needed. So that praying/asking for help makes the difference, not my willpower, which is weak because of my...I don't know its just too weak.
Even this vanilla bean can vouch for you there Mr DC.. your coffee may be sour but never that sour..
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PHart
Guest
I forgot to add you to the list of people who say the requirement to have to keep believing is a works gospel.
But anyway, I'm not "working to stay saved", I'm trusting in Christ to stay saved. Trusting is not working:
"5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness" (Romans 4:5 NASB)
So, please folks, stop saying 'believing' is a work of the damnable works gospel. As we can plainly see in the verse above present tense believing is being CONTRASTED with working, not being equated with it as you folks are doing. It's okay to have to do 'believing' in order to be saved and stay saved. Believing is not a works gospel, lol.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
No, Your problem is your playing God. You have no idea if that person was saved or not. But of course. When you have to push your earning salvation by maintinaing faith under your own power. What else would I expect?
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PHart
Guest
For the sake of time I'll just say that what your argument boils down to is the argument that true believers will not ever stop believing. I started to take your post apart piece by piece to show you this but I don't have the time to do that right now. But I will do that if I get time later so you can see that for yourself.Not entirely true. NONE of the people you've mentioned have said that to keep trusting in God, is a works-based gospel...
YOU have maintained all along that we need to "keep presently believing" in God. Problem is, when we have that initial belief on God, we are saved. Once and for all, not just until we screw up and He takes it away.. After we're saved, it's a natural thing to want to keep believing in God.
Only God knows why a person stops believing, and if it's temporary or forever. I've had things happen to me that shook my faith so hard, that I walked away from God for awhile. But I never stopped believing in Him.
A person needs to keep believing in Jesus, that's true. BUT NOT TO STAY SAVED. It's natural to keep believing. But YOU do it for the purpose of keeping yourself saved on a daily basis. And that, is what Dcon, EG and whoever else, calls a works-based gospel. Because it is, because you're working to stay saved. But Jesus already paid that price. So switch your mindset from "okay I gotta believe to stay saved, and I gotta believe tomorrow".. Switch it to "thank God Jesus died to save me from all my sins".
By working to keep yourself saved, you negate what He did on the cross. That's the precise reason that He died, to save you, and me, everyone, from their sins.
I'm fine if you want to believe that the believer can never stop believing, but there are so many warnings and exhortations to the believer in the Bible to continue to believe in order to be among and remain among the saved, and what will happen if you don't, that your argument simply has no Biblical footing.
Oh, and by the way, what I will absolutely reject with every fiber of my being is the assertion that even if you do stop believing you are still saved. That's a joke.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
It is considered a work when it is required to maintain or earn a wage or reward.
It is not a work when it is brought to fruition by the work and power Of God. At the initial point of repentance and true saving faith, where we call out to God in humility and ask him to apply the cross to our account, and save us, who do not deserve to be saved.