Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Here is how the verse in my translation fit in my mind.
If you will not stand firm, I cannot make you stand firm.
If you won't believe me about earthly things, how can I tell you about heavenly things?
He who is faithful with a little will be given more.

That is not what the passage says though, they added words to the passage.’’the passage says, If you will not believe (insinuating, that there has yet to be any belief period) that you will not be established.

The context is not even eternal life. It is talking about three nations who will come up against Judah,

either way, they term Iif you will not stand firm” is incorrect. It is a wrong translation. Believe has not even begun yet. “If you WILL believe” is fat different than saying “If you continue to believe”

 

[JaumeJ]

I hear Jesus christ, Yeshua, in many people, family in the forums, but for thetime beign I do not recognize my Master, Jesus christ, in your posts.

I do , however, detect an attempt to control the thinking of those already saved by the Blood of the Lamb of God. Jesus Christ's Blood keeps me from any lasting harm, for He is my Savior, the only Savior of man. Blessed be Jesus Christ, amen

See there you go again, Beqring false witness against someone because you refuse to listen to what they are saying.

Show me where I said the world owes me anything?

Show me where I said GOD owes me anything?

Of course you will not find either, Because I have never stated such a thing, I have never hinted of such things, and I have never wrote or believed such things.

So when will you open your eyes to what is really being said?

Faith produces works, If your trust someone, You do what they say, Because you KNOW they will not lead you astray.

If you do not trust them, You may obey a letter, but you will never be truly obedient. You will just be a religious person who is walking around praising God how good he or she is while judging people who are truly in the trenches working for God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why do you rant so? I have not threaatened anyone, nor have I falsely accused anyone.....

If you find the understanding of the teaching of Jesus Christ offensiveperhaps you should study more, pray more, and meditate more.

Yes you did. You claimed I said things I have never said or insinuated. (I fell like I am talking to Peter again, what is up with you people and your willingness to slander and not think you have to repent.)

I am not ranting, I am holding a person who claims to be a child of God accountable for their sin.

Go back to my thread, ready what I posted. And prove I said what you claimed I did. Or admit your sin. So we can be healed and we can have fruitful discussion.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No...it means you believe He exists, and then one of 3 things is going on, as I mentioned in a previous post.
God wants to work on our inconsistencies with us in the renewing of our minds.
But if He hasn't shown you something yet, He doesn't expect you to walk by light not yet given.
But to whoever is given more, more is expected.

This is why we pray for what we lack when He does show us our inconsistencies.

So if God showed us, but we still fail to trust him completely, and still sin in that area. We have denied God? And for this reason, God will deny us?

Think about what your saying.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Empty profession of faith.

anyone can play church, Only true believers can experience church.

 

[JaumeJ]

I am afraid I see you and your little, small, cohort as self appointed inquisitors, and you have decided i SHOULD BE YOUR FAVORITE HERETIC.

Please, if you cannot tolerate what people understand from the Master, do not follow them from post to post.....now for the sake of peace I shall un subscribe to this post used by you little group..

 

[mailmandan]

anyone can play church, Only true believers can experience church.

There are genuine believers and there are make believers.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I hear Jesus christ, Yeshua, in many people, family in the forums, but for thetime beign I do not recognize my Master, Jesus christ, in your posts.

I do , however, detect an attempt to control the thinking of those already saved by the Blood of the Lamb of God. Jesus Christ's Blood keeps me from any lasting harm, for He is my Savior, the only Savior of man. Blessed be Jesus Christ, amen

if you hear God in your posts. You are hearing a hallucination. God doe snot bear false witness against anyone.

You cannot go around telling people they believe things they do not believe, after being told over and over by many people your wrong about what you think they believe, and be professing the love or words of God.

Again, Can you show the room the accusations you made against me or not?

Where havce I said the world owes me anything?

Where have I said God owes me anything?

Where have I said a believer can live in sin?

Where have I said a person can not obey the commandments of God and enter eternal life?

Where Have I said these and the many 0other things you have over and over professed I believe?

If I say these things, You can surely find them and prove you are right and I am an evil person who is just attacking you. COntinue refusal to show these things only prove you are bearing false witness like I havce challenged.

 

[gb9]

I hear Jesus christ, Yeshua, in many people, family in the forums, but for thetime beign I do not recognize my Master, Jesus christ, in your posts.

I do , however, detect an attempt to control the thinking of those already saved by the Blood of the Lamb of God. Jesus Christ's Blood keeps me from any lasting harm, for He is my Savior, the only Savior of man. Blessed be Jesus Christ, amen

so the person who says that " real , understanding Christians who know Christ do not need to read the letters of Paul, they were only for churches who had problems" is accusing e.g. of trying to control what others think.

I think trying to trick people into not reading over half the N.T., mainly the parts about not being under the law, is attempting to control what others think, but that's just me............

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am afraid I see you and your little, small, cohort as self appointed inquisitors, and you have decided i SHOULD BE YOUR FAVORITE HERETIC.

Please, if you cannot tolerate what people understand from the Master, do not follow them from post to post.....now for the sake of peace I shall un subscribe to this post used by you little group..

Just back your attacks, thats all you have to do.

I can stand disagreements, I disagree with a lot of people. I will not stand for a person who bears false witness against others, then refuses to repent.

 

[VCO]

Thus you believed in vein, It was not true faith, it was mere belief.

What many have missed is the Word BELIEVE, in the Greeek and Hebrew, has a deeper meaning than the English word Believe.

The meaning of BELIEVE at the time of CHRIST, included a TOTAL WILLINGNESS TO PUT ALL OF YOUR TRUST IN WHAT YOU CLAIMED TO BELIEVE, for it to be true about yourself.

While the English Word BELIEVE, only requires intellectual acknowledgement of something as fact, AND SELDOM, IF AT ALL, REQUIRES THE PLACING OF ONE'S ENTIRE TRUST IN THAT BELIEF.

Using the English definition of BELIEVE, means the Demons in the Demoniacs at GADERA made a Statement of FAITH when they called HIM "SON OF THE MOST HIGH GOD".

While using the Greek and the HEBREW definition from the time of CHRIST, it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to be a Statement of FAITH, when it is LESS THAN TOTAL TRUST IN HIM, SUBMITTING TO HIM AS LORD, AS AN ACT OF LOVE, resulting in their SALVATION. And the only way anyone can do that, is by the POWER of the Holy Spirit, when HE enters your heart. (1 Cor. 12:3, Rom. 10:9, John 3:36, John 5:24, John 6:47, & Mat 22:37)

HENCE, many think they are SAVED by acknowledging the stories about Jesus are TRUE, when they have NEVER placed their LOVING TOTAL TRUST IN JESUS FOR THEIR SALVATION. How do I know that? I used to be one of the MANY, from childhood on, but I WAS NOT SAVED until I was 29 years old, two days before New Year's Eve.

 

[mailmandan]

What many have missed is the Word BELIEVE, in the Greeek and Hebrew, has a deeper meaning than the English word Believe.

The meaning of BELIEVE at the time of CHRIST, included a TOTAL WILLINGNESS TO PUT ALL OF YOUR TRUST IN WHAT YOU CLAIMED TO BELIEVE, for it to be true about yourself.

While the English Word BELIEVE, only requires intellectual acknowledgement of something as fact, AND SELDOM, IF AT ALL, REQUIRES THE PLACING OF ONE'S ENTIRE TRUST IN THAT BELIEF.

Using the English definition of BELIEVE, means the Demons in the Demoniacs at GADERA made a Statement of FAITH when they called HIM "SON OF THE MOST HIGH GOD".

While using the Greek and the HEBREW definition from the time of CHRIST, it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to be a Statement of FAITH, when it is LESS THAN TOTAL TRUST IN HIM, SUBMITTING TO HIM AS LORD, AS AN ACT OF LOVE, resulting in their SALVATION. And the only way anyone can do that, is by the POWER of the Holy Spirit, when HE enters your heart. (1 Cor. 12:3, Rom. 10:9, John 3:36, John 5:24, John 6:47, & Mat 22:37)

HENCE, many think they are SAVED by acknowledging the stories about Jesus are TRUE, when they have NEVER placed their LOVING TOTAL TRUST IN JESUS FOR THEIR SALVATION. How do I know that? I used to be one of the MANY, from childhood on, but I WAS NOT SAVED until I was 29 years old, two days before New Year's Eve.

In James 2:19, we can see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

Saving belief is more than just an "intellectual acknowledgment" to the existence and historical facts about Christ. Saving belief trusts exclusively in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

 

[NayborBear]

It seems, if one is not the very same body part of Christ, as someone else? They are not OF the body of Christ, at all. Riddle me this, if you would. Who has the right, and/or authority, to say to a believer and accepter of Christ: "You are an ankle in the body of Christ, and you SHALL REMAIN an ankle, or, toe, or forearm, or whatever, for just as long as you are seeing the top side of a lawnmower!"

 

[PHart]

What a fickle God you serve. One that like an unstable wife leaves mad when you don't take out the garbage.

No, God is a husband who will no longer stand by and protect a wife who leaves the relationship to take up residence with another man and who refuses to come back. But he'll stick close to and cover the wife who stays home even though she is imperfect in her management of the household, burns the Lasagna, etc.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There are genuine believers and there are make believers.

there are born again, spirit sealed children of God, and their are dead, spirit judged wannabes.

 

[stonesoffire]

Not must, will.

its interesting how one little word will throw off the whole meaning of the thought of the whole.

Must is law. Phart, you should catch the ball that Limey threw. Lol. But, you keep dropping it!

 

[Limey410v2]

No, God is a husband who will no longer stand by and protect a wife who leaves the relationship to take up residence with another man and who refuses to come back. But he'll stick close to and cover the wife who stays home even though she is imperfect in her management of the household, burns the Lasagna, etc.

Hahaha..burns the lasagna etc. That was a good one. Good to have a laugh every once in a while

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

So if God showed us, but we still fail to trust him completely, and still sin in that area. We have denied God? And for this reason, God will deny us?

Think about what your saying.

That is too simplified eg. It doesn't take the whole counsel of God into consideration, in my opinion.
He is very patient. He knows how to discipline us. He knows how dull of spirit we are. He takes our infirmities of flesh into account. He repeats things over and over until we remember them for good.

I am thinking about what I'm saying eg. This is one of many areas of which I spoke that seem to contradict each other to earthly minds - if we deny Him he will deny us, if we are faithless He remains faithful.

 

[loveme1]

there are born again, spirit sealed children of God, and their are dead, spirit judged wannabes.

There is One Heavenly Father and one way to be forgiven and Reconciled.. to be a child of GOD... yet all the children are different.. One Faith but different members.. different experiences One Lord and Saviour..

We are to come together in unity as Believers.. we know you are either condemned in unbelief or Saved in belief.... which of us here as the right to say otherwise based on our own conversion? We all are proclaiming Belief and all being perfected by Christ.. Love and Truth are not to be compromised.. but it may be that we are receiving increase from GOD in measure.. Grace and Truth is for all that Believe.. think of the Apostles and how they also had matters arise.. yet it is One Faith for all that Believe.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

That is too simplified eg. It doesn't take the whole counsel of God into consideration, in my opinion.
He is very patient. He knows how to discipline us. He knows how dull of spirit we are. He takes our infirmities of flesh into account. He repeats things over and over until we remember them for good.

I am thinking about what I'm saying eg. This is one of many areas of which I spoke that seem to contradict each other to earthly minds - if we deny Him he will deny us, if we are faithless He remains faithful.

I can tell you what I have discovered concerning God and a saying/puzzle/riddle/parable such as this one. My problem is usually that I am forgetting some aspect or attribute of God as I am puzzling over it.