Not By Works

[PHart]

His fight against calvanism has him not thinking correctly

Then he will say he is not trying to earn salvation, when he admits, if he does not do what he is told. God will remove the seal. That is exactly what earning salvation is.

No, when you stop BELIEVING God will remove the seal. What you do is only the evidence of that unbelief. I would have thought you would have given me the Christian courtesy of at least understanding the argument properly by now.

 

[Limey410v2]

Amen, thats why so many get in trouble. They fight an ism, then when people talk. They are blinded by their fight against th4e SIM, and thus can not see what people are actually saying. Or just plain blind by their hatred for one ISM that they can not see what it is they are actually believeing, But willingly do it because the ends justify the means (attacking the ISm they hate)

Yup, so true.

 

[PHart]

Amen, thats why so many get in trouble. They fight an ism, then when people talk. They are blinded by their fight against th4e SIM, and thus can not see what people are actually saying. Or just plain blind by their hatred for one ISM that they can not see what it is they are actually believeing, But willingly do it because the ends justify the means (attacking the ISm they hate)

OSAS is a doctrine of Calvin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, when you stop BELIEVING God will remove the seal. What you do is only the evidence of that unbelief. I would have thought you would have given me the Christian courtesy of at least understanding the argument properly by now.

Exactly, In your view. We have to EARN or MAINTAIN salvation by OUR OWN ABILEITY to continue BELIEVING.

God has noth9ing to do with it, He just gives you a seal. And says do this or else he will remove it.

I understand your argument, I have heard it 1000 times by about as many people. It still fails.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

OSAS is a doctrine of Calvin.

Eternal life is a doctrine of God/ Eternal security is a doctrine of God. Once your saved, your always saved is a doctrine of God.

OSAS is just a term/ just because calvin uses it does not mean it is not true.

 

[dcontroversal]

Eternal security is a bible doctrine....salvation, justification, sealing, sanctified positionally all fall under the following bolded statement...

New American Standard Bible
I know that everything God does will remain forever; there is nothing to add to it and there is nothing to take from it, for God has so worked that men should fear Him.

 

[Limey410v2]

OSAS is a doctrine of Calvin.

Salvation is a manifestation of the character of God. Call it what you will it still comes from Him.
Not me, you, or Calvin.

 

[PHart]

Lol. If your going to use an example. At least use an example that is lifelike. Your example was flawed. Thats not my fault.

If a person can be sealed based on him changing his mind, then the lasagnia has to have the ability to do this.

Again, Use the ark and an example. God sealed noah in, Could noah unseal what God sealed even if he wanted to. And why would he want to?

The point of the analogy is 'sealed' does not mean by definition 'unable to be unsealed' as OSAS asserts. Are you really not able to see that even though I plainly said that was the point, or are you simply unable to comprehend my plain words? Which is it?

 

[dcontroversal]

Eternal life is a doctrine of God/ Eternal security is a doctrine of God. Once your saved, your always saved is a doctrine of God.

OSAS is just a term/ just because calvin uses it does not mean it is not true.

AMEN....if it was conditional on something we do or do not do...the words eternal and or everlasting would not be applied....God is a God of words......scripture does not contradict itself.....he said believe and acknowledge JESUS = eternal life...end of story.....if not then the following verse which sets forth a principle is false....

New American Standard Bible
I know that everything God does will remain forever; there is nothing to add to it and there is nothing to take from it, for God has so worked that men should fear Him.

 

[Limey410v2]

AMEN....if it was conditional on something we do or do not do...the words eternal and or everlasting would not be applied....God is a God of words......scripture does not contradict itself.....he said believe and acknowledge JESUS = eternal life...end of story.....if not then the following verse which sets forth a principle is false....

New American Standard Bible
I know that everything God does will remain forever; there is nothing to add to it and there is nothing to take from it, for God has so worked that men should fear Him.

Yes, the issue with folks that disagree, is that they tend to believe that we believe that this is the end of it.

When in fact, it is truly the beginning of a new life with Him for ever!!!

 

[PHart]

Salvation is a manifestation of the character of God. Call it what you will it still comes from Him.
Not me, you, or Calvin.

Of course it comes from God. How does that mean we do not have to do anything to get it, not even believe? Remember, you are the one that said, "it is relying on His promise of Him never leaving us", and "Our act is surrender". Can I stop 'doing' these things and Christ still keep me sealed with His Spirit? Of course not. The promises are conditioned on just what you say, relying and surrender. Stop doing that and he will stop fulfilling the promises for you.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

lol.. I disagree.. If I am weak in faiht in a certain area and end up committing sin because of it. it does not mean I deny him.

So I stand by what I said.

Whatever is not of faith is sin.
Not having faith in your circumstance is not faith.
It is either not having been given more light to see yet or it is a current struggle to grow in faith once you have been given the light to see the area of unbelief and faithlessness or thirdly, it is just denying what He has said because we want to go with the world on it. In my opinion.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The point of the analogy is 'sealed' does not mean by definition 'unable to be unsealed' as OSAS asserts. Are you really not able to see that even though I plainly said that was the point, or are you simply unable to comprehend my plain words? Which is it?

Lol. Thats your opinion. And your example fails at showing your opinion.

I explained why your example fails. Whether you see it or not is not on me..

As I said, Noah and the ark is a better example. But as usual you keep ignoring it.

You still have placed a condition on remaining sealed. Yet still deny it.. Thats on you my friend.

 

[VCO]

No, when you stop BELIEVING God will remove the seal. What you do is only the evidence of that unbelief. I would have thought you would have given me the Christian courtesy of at least understanding the argument properly by now.

NOT . . . when that happens you just proved you NEVER HAD THE SEAL IN THE FIRST PLACE.

John 10:27-30 (HCSB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] The Father and I are one.”

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Whatever is not of faith is sin.
Not having faith in your circumstance is not faith.
It is either not having been given more light to see yet or it is a current struggle to grow in faith once you have been given the light to see the area of unbelief and faithlessness or thirdly, it is just denying what He has said because we want to go with the world on it. In my opinion.

lol.. So if I sin, I deny christ, and am now unsaved, is that what your saying? (Remember, we are taking about the verse which says if we deny Christ he will deny us)

so which is it?

Can I sin without denying Christ, or is all sin denying christ?

All sin is lack of faith, I agree.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Of course it comes from God. How does that mean we do not have to do anything to get it, not even believe? Remember, you are the one that said, "it is relying on His promise of Him never leaving us", and "Our act is surrender". Can I stop 'doing' these things and Christ still keep me sealed with His Spirit? Of course not. The promises are conditioned on just what you say, relying and surrender. Stop doing that and he will stop fulfilling the promises for you.

There he goes again, he placed a human condition on salvation, He is trying to save himself.

End of story.

 

[Limey410v2]

Of course it comes from God. How does that mean we do not have to do anything to get it, not even believe? Remember, you are the one that said, "it is relying on His promise of Him never leaving us", and "Our act is surrender". Can I stop 'doing' these things and Christ still keep me sealed with His Spirit? Of course not. The promises are conditioned on just what you say, relying and surrender. Stop doing that and he will stop fulfilling the promises for you.

That doesn't make any sense. Christ died once and was resurrected once. He doesn't keep doing it to keep fulfilling the promise.

The inheritance has been given, as is testified by the death of the testator. That happens one time only. I don't have to keep getting saved ??

 

[Magenta]

Not having faith in your circumstance is not faith.

Hello SBG, I do not understand this part of what you said. Do we trust our circumstances, or trust Him to bring us though them, relying on Him regardless of our circumstances? That is what I wonder about what you said. Is that what you mean? Seeing that there is a greater purpose for the things that are set before us? Like, resting in Him no matter what.

 

[PHart]

AMEN....if it was conditional on something we do or do not do...the words eternal and or everlasting would not be applied....God is a God of words......scripture does not contradict itself.....he said believe and acknowledge JESUS = eternal life...end of story.....if not then the following verse which sets forth a principle is false....

Lol, this is funny: You say it's not conditional on something we do, then you proceed to say, "he said believe and acknowledge JESUS = eternal life". That's funny. But I encounter this all the time in OSAS discussions. It's quite humorous sometimes.

New American Standard Bible
I know that everything God does will remain forever; there is nothing to add to it and there is nothing to take from it, for God has so worked that men should fear Him.

And so we are to throw out the plain passages of scripture that say we lose our salvation if we stop believing in favor of a more vague and less specific verse? A less specific verse never trumps a specific verse of scripture.

Stunned, this is what I was talking about earlier--using a less specific verse to nullify a specific one. I see this all the time in Christian's doctrines. We don't do this in our court of law, but it seems to be okay to do in our belief systems.

 

[dcontroversal]

I see a lot post about faith......remember the guy who said....LORD, increase thou my faith....what about the guy who the Lord had to touch twice to heal....Abraham BELIEVED GOD and was justified because of his belief....and yet the Abraham who offered ISAAC had a much greater faith than that which he had when he was RENDERED JUST by faith without works....SAVING faith is a one off event with eternal consequence and then a process of GROWTH and MATURITY just as daily sanctification is in our physical lives.......it can be matured, hindered, stunted, grown etc...........at the end of the day JESUS told his disciples if they had faith the size of a mustard seed they could.........yet they had already been saved, immersed, called out and given authority and power to preach, witness, raise the dead, heal, cast out demons etc.......