Not By Works

[PJW]

I blame those of your ilk in the 'I did it all by myself" the 'pat on the back' false gospel you guys proclaim.

I never would have been able to escape from bondage to sin without God's magnificent grace and love.
The difference between me and you, though, seems to me to be that I wanted the freedom.

 

[Hizikyah]

How do you deal with..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18) ?

If we compare the greek words they are differnt, one seems to be a sin the other seems to be living in/continuing sin;

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."
266 hamartian ἁμαρτίαν sin


1 John 5:18, "We know that everyone having been born of YHWH does not sin, but the one having been born of YHWH guards himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.”
264 hamartanei ἁμαρτάνει, continue to sin

It does not mean they never sin IMO.

 

[PJW]

If one was completely sinless, I'd think that he would be changed from mortal to immortal. Then the world would flock to him for all needs.

Jesus said..."[FONT=&quot]And whosoever liveth and [/FONT]believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" (John 11:26)

To me the greatest lie about this is not needing the body of Christ. It's making one the head, and not a member.

Again I say, there is no sin in Christ...so if you are part of the body you too are free from sin.
If you still have sin you are not part of Christ.

And I believe it's not sins as we normally define them, but faults of being human. Like quick in getting angry. Some are more sensitive to these things then others, and we are instructed to cover one then.

It is written..."All unrighteousness is sin:" (1 John 5:17)

In posting all these warnings rather than the promises that build ones faith, it seems to me that these are accusations rather than a help and answers to a need.

Depends on what your "need" is.
Some want to praise God with a clean conscience, and others want a license or covering for their iniquity.

They must believe we all are secret boozers, fornicators, committing adultery right and left.

Not so secret.
The light makes manifest from whence is the heart.

 

[mailmandan]

How do you deal with..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18)?

So you interpret this verse to mean those who are born of God live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life in the flesh 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus did)? That of course is music to the ears of the self righteous.

Greek scholar A T Robertson points out - "Lineal present active indicative, "does not keep on sinning," as he has already shown in 1 John 3:4–10. Sinneth not (ouc amartanei). Linear present (linear menwn, keeps on abiding) active indicative of amartanw, "does not keep on sinning." Present (linear) active articular participle like menwn above, "the one who keeps on sinning" (lives a life of sin, not mere occasional acts of sin).

Amplified - We know [absolutely] that anyone born of God does not [deliberately and knowingly] practice committing sin, but the One Who was begotten of God carefully watches over and protects him [Christ’s divine presence within him preserves him against the evil], and the wicked one does not lay hold (get a grip) on him or touch [him].

 

[mailmandan]

Thank you for echoing those teachings of God.
Like Paul, I am glad the word of God is preached, even if it is with ambivalence.

Baptismal regeneration, salvation by works and sinless perfection of the flesh are not teachings of God, but of false teachers.

 

[mailmandan]

You don't believe this verse?..."For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be madetherighteousness of God in him." (2 Cor 5:21)
Or this verse? "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." (Rom 6:18)
It isn't "my" righteousness: it is His.

I believe those verses, just not your misinterpretation of those verses. You don't believe 1 John 1:8-10.

 

[PJW]

While I completely disagree with PJW's "I never sin" belief, I will stick up for him here.

I do not believe that he is a banned former CC member using a new identity.

PJW is certainly deceived in what he believes, but he is not a liar.

Gee, thanks shrume.

 

[BillG]

Jesus said..."And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" (John 11:26)


Again I say, there is no sin in Christ...so if you are part of the body you too are free from sin.
If you still have sin you are not part of Christ.


It is written..."All unrighteousness is sin:" (1 John 5:17)


Depends on what your "need" is.
Some want to praise God with a clean conscience, and others want a license or covering for their iniquity.


Not so secret.
The light makes manifest from whence is the heart.

You are right there is no sin Christ, cause he is sinlesss

 

[mailmandan]

I never would have been able to escape from bondage to sin without God's magnificent grace and love.
The difference between me and you, though, seems to me to be that I wanted the freedom.

Notice how everything with you is about "exalting yourself as sinless" and debasing others as sinful. The difference between you and honest believers is they confess their sin (1 John 1:9), whereas you say you have no sin, deceive yourself, and the truth is not in you (1 John 1:8).

 

[PJW]

I John 1:8------------

One of John's verses addressing those who walk in darkness.
Let's look at a verse addressed to those who walk in the light..."[FONT=&quot]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7)
Did you catch that?
Cleanses us of ALL sin?
Of course it is up to us to re[/FONT][FONT=&quot]m[/FONT][FONT=&quot]a[/FONT][FONT=&quot]i[/FONT][FONT=&quot]n in the light, till we are called home.
Thankfully, God has made it possible.[/FONT]

 

[PJW]

So with A: is this a one time event? They confess their sins and then never sin afterwards. I think this is what you think.

That is what I know.
It is written..."[FONT=&quot]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" (2 Peter 1:10)[/FONT]

Or can a person who is in A as I believe you think, who does commit one sin then they are now in B?

Correct.
They have left the light for the darkness of sin.
Frankly, the sin shows they were never "of the light".
1 John 3:9 makes that clear.

If so can they ever become part of the group in A again?

God is merciful, not wanting any to perish.
They are able to start walking in the light, which is God, if they turn from sin.

 

[BillG]

One of John's verses addressing those who walk in darkness.
Let's look at a verse addressed to those who walk in the light..."But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7)
Did you catch that?
Cleanses us of ALL sin?
Of course it is up to us to remain in the light, till we are called home.
Thankfully, God has made it possible.

Yes I caught that

1 John 1:7
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

The word that I find interesting here is FELLOWSHIP.

I have said it before and I will say it again.

You do come accross with no view to fellowship but to condemn those of us who do not agree with you.
Those who placed their faith in Jesus and admit that they are not perfect and get it wrong you accuse them of being servants of sin and not in Jesus, and even though you haven’t said it, but by reference they are going to hell.

Yet you neglect

1 John 1:8-10


8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Well I say you neglect but of course you do not.

You make it fit to your belief that you are sinless.

 

[PJW]

If we compare the greek words they are differnt, one seems to be a sin the other seems to be living in/continuing sin;

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."
266 hamartian ἁμαρτίαν sin
1 John 5:18, "We know that everyone having been born of YHWH does not sin, but the one having been born of YHWH guards himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.”
264 hamartanei ἁμαρτάνει, continue to sin

It does not mean they never sin IMO.

How can a man sin, or continue to sin, if the wicked one does not touch him?
Your "point" reduces Jesus' parables about grapevines not bearing figs, etc, to a lie.
I beg you to rethink your thesis.

You are fooling yourself to think these are different in the application of the verses in a man's life.
Who commits ONE sin?

 

[BillG]

That is what I know.
It is written..."Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" (2 Peter 1:10)


Correct.
They have left the light for the darkness of sin.
Frankly, the sin shows they were never "of the light".
1 John 3:9 makes that clear.


God is merciful, not wanting any to perish.
They are able to start walking in the light, which is God, if they turn from sin.

So given your last response a beliver a person can go from A to B and back from B to A.
Am I understanding you correctly? If so then then a beliver can in fact sin. And go from A to B, B to A and do the hokey coky and turn around.

Are you continuously in A?

 

[PJW]

So you interpret this verse to mean those who are born of God live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life in the flesh 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus did)? That of course is music to the ears of the self righteous.

I wouldn't know what the "self-righteous" think.
It is music to the ears of those that love God above all else.

Greek scholar A T Robertson points out - "Lineal present active indicative, "does not keep on sinning," as he has already shown in 1 John 3:4–10. Sinneth not (ouc amartanei). Linear present (linear menwn, keeps on abiding) active indicative of amartanw, "does not keep on sinning." Present (linear) active articular participle like menwn above, "the one who keeps on sinning" (lives a life of sin, not mere occasional acts of sin).

Like Jesus said..."seek and ye shall find".
You seek ways to castigate freedom from sin and obedience to God. A way to maintain sin in your life without guilt.
How does that magnify the love of God?

Amplified - We know [absolutely] that anyone born of God does not [deliberately and knowingly] practice committing sin, but the One Who was begotten of God carefully watches over and protects him [Christ’s divine presence within him preserves him against the evil], and the wicked one does not lay hold (get a grip) on him or touch [him].

King James Version - [FONT=&quot]Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Can olive trees bear figs?
Neither can they who are born of God bear sin.[/FONT]

 

[PJW]

Baptismal regeneration, salvation by works and sinless perfection of the flesh are not teachings of God, but of false teachers.

Salvation by the works of the law, (which Paul fought against), is not a teaching of God.
Neither is eternal paradise for the sinners.

 

[PJW]

I believe those verses, just not your misinterpretation of those verses. You don't believe 1 John 1:8-10.

You don't believe that John is addressing two manners of walk.
One in the light, and the other in darkness.
Those in the darkness cannot say they have no sin.
Those in the light can say they have no sin, because ALL the sin has been washed away and they remain in the light...which is God.

 

[stonesoffire]

Jesus said..."And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" (John 11:26)


Again I say, there is no sin in Christ...so if you are part of the body you too are free from sin.
If you still have sin you are not part of Christ.


It is written..."All unrighteousness is sin:" (1 John 5:17)


Depends on what your "need" is.
Some want to praise God with a clean conscience, and others want a license or covering for their iniquity.


Not so secret.
The light makes manifest from whence is the heart.

Wait a minute. Is your point that we don't have a sin nature? If so, then I would agree. That is flesh which has been circumcised through the power of God.

Our problem is our mind being renewed and habits. I have acted out as if I wasn't dead to sin, then thought why did I do this? It's not what I want to do.

If you are saying this, I agree. But, if you think you are perfected this way?

I dont have an opinion. Not sure I could make a judgement on this, for I don't really know what exactly Paul was calling the high calling. Yet.

I think I'll ask the ministry I follow. This couple does move in the miraculous.

 

[PJW]

You are right there is no sin Christ, cause he is sinlesss

And when you are "immersed", baptized into Christ, you can be sinless too.
Your old man of the flesh is crucified and buried with Christ. It is then raised with Him to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-6)
A life gendered of God's seed that cannot bring forth evil fruit.

 

[Rokurac]

People who don't believe there is such a thing as sin

Who has ever said that they dont believe there is such a thing as sin?
Well, if nobody said that, and you claim they did. You know what that spells? That spells B-A-D N-E-W-S for your sinless perfection weaksauce theology.