PHART what makes u think that people who believe once saved always saved dont heed to those warnings about backsliding u see????? there are people in both camps u see who dont heed to those warnings, and some who do!!!!!!!!
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Hi Phart, You are promoting a counterfeit gospel = a counterfeit Christ. The heretical teaching you are promoting within your fake gospel is that God cannot keep Christians saved until the day of our redemption. Fake believers will have a problem with the security of the believer because they
are terrified that they are not truly saved; So they invent a counterfeit gospel that suits their
distorted view of "Save by Grace"
A truly saved Christian will have the comfort of the Holy Spirit, the comfort of the promises of God and the written word of the bible. Like Decon say's you have to jump trough whoops to get to you. And I say you are just flipping more of your "Pancake Theology." Fake gospel = fake Jesus.
A Simple Explanation of Monergism
by John Hendryx
Monergism simply means that it is God who gives ears to hear and eyes to see. It is God alone who gives illumination and understanding of His word that we might believe; It is God who raises us from the dead, who circumcises the heart; unplugs our ears; It is God alone who can give us a new sense that we may, at last, have the moral capacity to behold His beauty and unsurpassed excellency.
Definition:
The Century Dictionary's definition of monergism may be helpful:"In theology, [monergism is] the doctrine that the Holy Spirit is the only efficient agent in regeneration [the new birth] - that the human will possesses no inclination to holiness until regenerated [born again], and therefore cannot cooperate in regeneration."
Application:
Monergism strips us of all hope to ourselves, reveals our spiritual bankruptcy apart from Christ, and thus leads us to give all glory to God alone for our salvation. As long as we think we contributed something, even a little bit (like good intentions) then we still think deep down that God saves us for something good he sees in us over our neighbor. But this is clearly not the case.
Only Jesus makes us to differ from anyone else. We are all sinners and can boast in nothing before God, including the desire for faith in Christ (Phil 1:29, Eph 2:8, 2 Tim 2:25).
Conclusion: "
no one can say, 'Jesus is Lord', except by the Holy Spirit." (1 Corinthians 12:3) . ...who is the deposit guaranteeing what is to come (2 Corinthians 5:5). Thus it should become plain to us that not everyone receives this redemptive blessing from Christ. God bestows it mercifully on whom He will according to His sovereign good pleasure (Rom 9:15-18; Eph 1:4, 5).
That is why it is called "mercy" - not getting what we deserve. If God were obligated to give it to all men then, by definition, it would not longer be mercy. This should not surprise us ... what should surprise us is God's amazing love, that He would save a sinner like me at all.
Attribution: https://www.monergism.com
by John Hendryx
Monergism simply means that it is God who gives ears to hear and eyes to see. It is God alone who gives illumination and understanding of His word that we might believe; It is God who raises us from the dead, who circumcises the heart; unplugs our ears; It is God alone who can give us a new sense that we may, at last, have the moral capacity to behold His beauty and unsurpassed excellency.
Definition:
The Century Dictionary's definition of monergism may be helpful:"In theology, [monergism is] the doctrine that the Holy Spirit is the only efficient agent in regeneration [the new birth] - that the human will possesses no inclination to holiness until regenerated [born again], and therefore cannot cooperate in regeneration."
Application:
Monergism strips us of all hope to ourselves, reveals our spiritual bankruptcy apart from Christ, and thus leads us to give all glory to God alone for our salvation. As long as we think we contributed something, even a little bit (like good intentions) then we still think deep down that God saves us for something good he sees in us over our neighbor. But this is clearly not the case.
Only Jesus makes us to differ from anyone else. We are all sinners and can boast in nothing before God, including the desire for faith in Christ (Phil 1:29, Eph 2:8, 2 Tim 2:25).
Conclusion: "
no one can say, 'Jesus is Lord', except by the Holy Spirit." (1 Corinthians 12:3) . ...who is the deposit guaranteeing what is to come (2 Corinthians 5:5). Thus it should become plain to us that not everyone receives this redemptive blessing from Christ. God bestows it mercifully on whom He will according to His sovereign good pleasure (Rom 9:15-18; Eph 1:4, 5).
That is why it is called "mercy" - not getting what we deserve. If God were obligated to give it to all men then, by definition, it would not longer be mercy. This should not surprise us ... what should surprise us is God's amazing love, that He would save a sinner like me at all.
Attribution: https://www.monergism.com
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PHart
Guest
All CHRISTIANS are saved until the day of redemption. It is EX-Christians/ ex-believers that are no longer saved until the day of redemption.
"Christ was faithful as a Son over His house—whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end." (Hebrews 3:6 NASB)
God can not keep the ex-believer by his power because God keeps one until the Day of Salvation THROUGH FAITH (1 Peter 1:5). But the ex-believer no longer has the faith through which God keeps a person safe until the Day of Salvation.
Fake believers don't invent gospels that condemn themselves, lol. Fake believers invent gospels that suit their lack of faith and works. A fake believer would not invent a gospel that condemns him for his own lack of faith (and works) that signify the true believer. Which I think is why OSAS is so popular among people in the church today. It's very accommodating to our old selves.
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We all have to stand before Christ to be judged before we get in to the Kingdom.
"Yes or No", can a true born again believer "lose their eternal salvation."
No need to dance around this issue. Tell me what do you believe. "Yes or No", I do not want to jump threw more of your whoops, just a simple, "yes or no", answer will do please.
Yes: a true believer can lose their salvation.
No: a true believer cannot lose their salvation.
Happy Birthday
[video=youtube;inS9gAgSENE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inS9gAgSENE[/video]
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PHart
Guest
Yes, a true believer can lose their salvation.......by becoming an ex-believer. I've made this abundantly clear.
This is hard for the church to grasp because we have been indoctrinated to the point of deafness about this subject. No matter how many times I explain it, and in no matter how many ways, people in the church still can not hear any argument outside of their own argument that Christians can not lose their salvation.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
so it is dependent on a believer to save himself by continuing to believe. And Not God.
Yet you say you do not teach works. Your whole gospel is works man, it is what YOU HAVE TO DO. Not what God did, Is doing and WILL Do.
Yes we will.
I will be saved by my faith in Jesus and his death and resurrection.
My works will be judged.
But you haven’t answered my questions.
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THAT IS THE FALSE DOCTRINE OF A HERETIC PREACHER, because what appears to be losing his or her Salvation, IS ONLY PROVING THEY NEVER WERE SAVED IN THE FIRST PLACE. MANY FALSE PREACHERS, LOWER THE GOSPEL REQUIREMENTS FOR BECOMING A GENUINE BORN AGAIN BELIEVER, JUST TO COUNT MORE SCALPS. THEN WHEN SOME OF THOSE ALMOST BELIEVERS LEAVE, RATHER THAN ADMIT THAT HE TAUGHT A WATERED DOWN FALSE GOSPEL; HE POINTS A FINGER AND SAYS: "SEE THERE, THEY LOST THEIR SALVATION."
1 John 2:19 (NIV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
Lamentations 3:22 (HCSB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Because of the LORD’s faithful we do not perish, for His mercies never end.
John 10:28-30 (CSBBible)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them out of my hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] I and the Father are one."
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Do not believe in luck.
I Believe is Jesus and his atonement for my sin.
As a result I have the Holy Spirit in me to remind of that and to conform me to the image of Christ.
What about you?
I asked you questions and gave you my thoughts.
Yet you seem resistant to answer.
All you say “We will stand before Jesus and be judged before we get into the kingdom”
The you tell me “Good luck with that”
Ok a couple of more questions if you don’t mind.
What will I be judged on?
How much luck will be required?
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PHart
Guest
When you first heard the call to salvation, was your salvation dependent on you to save yourself by believing and not God?
Of course not, lol. So how is it that exact same believing is now suddenly a works gospel effort to save yourself?
You claim that believing is works, yet you won't provide any scripture that says that, while I have been posting the verse that plainly says believing is NOT works and is CONTRASTED with works as to that which can justify (Romans 4:5).
For some odd reason, you and many others have foolishly put believing on the side of the works that can not justify. It's a lack of knowledge, plain and simple. You have been taught that since salvation is not by works that means you do not have to do anything at all to be saved--not even believe, and if you do anything to be saved you are trying to earn your own salvation. I honestly can not believe the church has sunk to this all time low that now even believing is a work of the damnable works gospel.
Evening Mr Phart my friend.
How you doing?
To be honest the argument you make can be reciprocated on the other side of the coin.
One calls heads and the other calls tails.
Truth is this, one day when Jesus calls time we will find out whether heads or tails is correct.
I think for me either side of the equation it can lead to two ways.
Those who say you can lose it are saying you must work to keep it. Do good works, don’t drink don’t smoke and so on.
The reverse is that it seems that you can drink and smoke and it’s ok.
I think a true mature believer can balance it out.
And I have to say that in part I agree with you (you know me well enough with regards my thoughts on OSAS)
I know that you beleive a genuine believer can become an ex-believer. That they reject Jesus fully and therefore his atonement for our sins. In effect they say Jesus wasn’t actually the Son of God who died and rose again.
Basically a liar.
I also know that you believe a believer can struggle with sin, be ensnared by it yet hate it and ask for forgiveness and ask for help. So I don’t think you are a don’t drink don’t smoke man.
Your a man who would encourage someone struggling who is seeking God for help and wants help is still a believer.
But I think you do align with those of the OSAS persuasion in the sense if one struggles yet seeks help and wants it then they are still saved.
To me a true believer will cling on to God, despite what they struggle with, the guilt they feel and helplessness.
For me I can’t tell who is a true believer or not. Only God knows that.
However If a person confessses to be a true believer yet struggles or goes MIA, we need to come alongside.
Never write someone off.
We have a duty to do this.
Everyone of them is dead.....even the only one to keep every law his whole life had to become sin and die cursed on a tree.......
There is not a just man upon the earth that does good and sins not!
I have answered, your too blinded by your burger king theology to see the fallacy of your street organ player false gospel of I MUST KEEP MYSELF SAVED