Not By Works
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Zi
Guest
By the way, Zi, your "Love yourself so fiercely that no one dare love you half-heartedly" in your avatar reminds me perfectly of those mentioned in 2 Timothy 3:2.
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joefizz
Guest
Wouldn't be the first time this thread was off topic or derailed,a fare few times by yours truly,winerose visits this thread for the fireworks! hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha!
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joefizz
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Ariel82
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Basic load of white sandwich bread..want to try to bake at home instead of buy bread to make sandwiches. W8'll see how it goes.
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joefizz
Guest
well it's really half and half,we don't instantly believe except as children,but as we learn more and realize God being in our lives we begin to believe more surely from God's being there for us,but it is our own "Individual choice" to ask for and receive salvation,so God through Jesus saves us but we have a role in asking for salvation and receiving it,so really in a sense both you and God cause yourself to be saved,because by yourself you can't be saved,and though God could save anyone due to Jesus's sacrifice he leaves acceptance of Jesus and salvation to us to decide upon,so we "know" we are saved instead of guessing that we are saved.
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Ariel82
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When I a new Christian, I believed I chose God.
As I get older I see how God's hand was in my life long before I ever thought of Him.
So I have learnt how to love because He first loved me.
Faith is learning to trust in God for all things in our life and it grows with time we spend with Him.
How can we be converted without faith?
By the grace and mercy of God who changes our hearts to seek and desire Him.
Then God gives us faith.
Personally I don't think anyone is truly converted until they have the Holy spirit indwelling and guiding them...
It takes more than verbal confession more than mental assent. It takes a heart transplant.
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PHart
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Faith RETAINED is both, the cause of salvation, and the evidence of salvation. People who cast aside the Word of Faith that saves are neither saved by that faith, nor do they have evidence of that faith in their lives.
You have to retain and hold fast the Word of faith to be saved by that word through which faith comes:
"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain (that Christ is not risen from the dead--see vs.14,17)." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB)
"24As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father." (1 John 2:24 NASB)
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PHart
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You're asking the wrong question. The right question is, "Who made it possible to believe and be saved?" God of course. That's why we can't boast. Nobody comes to God on their own. He makes the way level so we can then come to him believing. God provides the faith, we then do the trusting/believing in response to that faith. Most choose to reject the faith God provides through the testimony of the Holy Spirit, in effect calling Him a liar.
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"But so many people in the church are sure they are going to see the Lord without sanctification because they have been told over and over and over again that they do not have to change into different people because that would be a works gospel,"
A Church that is bible believing, Holy Spirit filled with believer's are never taught, they do not have to change. A new born babe in Christ is taught the fundamentals of the faith by attending Sunday School class, bible study, and the preaching and teaching of God's word. Who are these, "so many people in the church", what churches, what people, and who is telling them, "over and over and over again," there is no need to change, "because that would be a works gospel." Who and where are these people.
Who are these people, that say, "they need not change", and what church do they attend. How could you possibly have this vast knowledge of, "so many people in the church." Where are you getting your information from and should everyone here take your word for everything you say, with no proof. Or are you just making these things up in your mind so that you can continue to promote your false gospel, and tell each dear Christian's that they will lose their eternal salvation if you stop believing, where's the proof.
After living my life in Christ for 40 plus years I have never heard of a false gospel promoted, "in the Church", like you and Mr.Jen's have done. Your hidden agenda's of a works gospel is; that a true believer can lose their "eternal salvation", if a believer has a momentary lack of belief. It was God who saved every living being on Noah's Ark, not their ability to believe.
No true believer ever thinks their is no change necessary in their life as they grow in Christ. What you are teaching here is just pure lies and a false gospel.
Psalm 9:7-8, “But יהוה abides forever, He is preparing His throne for judgment. And He judges the world in righteousness, He judges the peoples in straightness."
1 John 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."
1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death."
1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."
Romans 5:13, "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."
Romans 4:15, "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."
Romans 8:1, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
1 John/Yahanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk as He walked."
1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”
John 3:36, “He who believes in the Son possesses everlasting life, but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of Yah remains on him.”
John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
John/Yahanan 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."
1 John 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."
1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death."
1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."
Romans 5:13, "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."
Romans 4:15, "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."
Romans 8:1, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
1 John/Yahanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk as He walked."
1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”
John 3:36, “He who believes in the Son possesses everlasting life, but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of Yah remains on him.”
John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
John/Yahanan 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."
This statement of Phart's is a pure bold lie and no bible believing Church would ever teach these things. He has no proof of these claims and they are just pure lie's fabricated in his own mind
Quote: Phart
"But so many people in the church are sure they are going to see the Lord without sanctification "because they have been told over and over and over again that they do not have to change" into different people because that would be a works gospel,"
False gospel, pure lie's
Yes. Notice also in his false gospel he is making the man the one responsible for this transformation, and if he doesn't do this, he is off to hell, though once saved. This is seen in his straw man "they do not have to change into different people" which is filled with implications the person must change. By the way, this is God's doing, not ours, 2 Corinthians 5:17; Romans 12:1ff &c.
First it was;
1) If you stop believing, off to hell you go.
2) Then it became if you stop believing "and do something stupid," it is off to hell you go.
3) Now it is if the person doesn't transform themselves, it is off to hell they go.
The list is growing, and it's focus is never on the accomplishment of Christ, it is incessantly on man.
Thanks Preacher, I did not see this before, Phart has a, "Progressive false gospel",
what will he serve up next.
John 3:36, “He who believes in the Son possesses everlasting life, but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of Yah remains on him.”
John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
John/Yahanan 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."
John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
John/Yahanan 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."
I Live "any way I want" NOW. I am born again, a child of God, I WANT to do His Perfect Will in my life at all times.
The Holy Spirit has directed and corrected me over the years to line up how I want to live with how He wants me to live.
I was rebellious in my walk for quite a while, reaping in painful ways that ungodly walk. I still stumble sometimes. But as I look back at that time I can literally see where the Lord sustained me, allowing the consequences of sinful behavior to draw me back into a more Godly walk and deeper relationship with Him.
If I had continued down that path, and God allowed satan to utterly destroy my flesh to the point of death, wouldn't that be better than to continue wrong living? I truly believe Romans 8:28. So because of that I trust my Heavenly Father will always do what's in the best interest of His children. The Question is ARE YOU HIS CHILD?
If yes, then you must trust that He will work ALL things for your good, and His Glory.
So ask yourself. Do you do what His Will is because YOU WANT TO and are beyond grateful, or do you do it out of fear and obligation?
If it is not the former than you better examine if you have the right Gospel. Because it ISN'T about sinful lifestyles, it's about faith, or unbelief in Jesus Christ. WHO He is and WHAT He has done.
Do YOU believe Jesus' Blood, and subsequent resurrection is sufficient for eternal life, or are you insulting the spirit of Grace by trying to add to it?
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It is definitely progressing further and further away from good news to asinine news. Wait, it never was good news.
Imagine one of these fellows here; "Hey, I want to preach the good news to you. It's really not that good, it's really kind of bad actually. Jesus didn't really do enough to save you forever, BUT, if you trust Him, and then don't do anything stupid, don't stop believing, and change yourself into a better person, you get the free gift, I mean, reward, well, no, what I really mean in the end is you've earned your way into heaven. Now, would you like to pray to yourself, and trust yourself for eternal life?"
I don’t believe I saw anyone saying anything like that "Pray to their selves"???… So I guess this must be imagine conversations and speak for others day…Think I’ll join in.
So just imagine some other fellas here saying, “Hey I really want to preach the good news to you, but what’s the point…Jesus doesn’t give everyone a chance to be saved so you have no choice in the matter… Now would you like to pray...oh wait..never mind....It is what it is”…
So just imagine some other fellas here saying, “Hey I really want to preach the good news to you, but what’s the point…Jesus doesn’t give everyone a chance to be saved so you have no choice in the matter… Now would you like to pray...oh wait..never mind....It is what it is”…