Not By Works

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dcontroversal said:
AMEN.....THE simplicity found in Christ.....it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE.
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You say the person who believes is saved (as opposed to the person who works), but when I say it, 'believing' suddenly becomes a self righteous work of the damnable works gospel. And I know you mean 'believing' as in present tense right now believing because I think you have said our believing comes from God and, therefore, we can never stop believing. Or you think even if we stop believing we are still saved, but that's H-Grace doctrine and I think you said you do not subscribe to H-Grace doctrine.
 
Magenta said:
I listen to him as well :) I enjoy hearing his messages :D
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Hi Magenta...I love his humor lol, so clean and so funny, I have not known anyone else who has heard him, I am giving you a high five , raise your hand, did you get it, :D...xox...
 
dcontroversal said:
You are correct....the same farce gets peddled today as well.....even though we do not espouse or teach that.....
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Let's see what you teach: Just us tell us straight out.....can a true believer live any way he wants and still remain saved? Yes, or no? If you say 'yes', then you are in fact teaching that a true believer can live any way he wants. If you say, 'no'....
 
Rosemaryx said:
Hi Magenta...I love his humor lol, so clean and so funny, I have not known anyone else who has heard him, I am giving you a high five , raise your hand, did you get it, :D...xox...
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I got it, thank you, Rosemary! :):D:)

Here is Alistair's ministry website :)

https://www.truthforlife.org/
 
PHart said:
Let's see what you teach: Just us tell us straight out.....can a true believer live any way he wants and still remain saved? Yes, or no? If you say 'yes', then you are in fact teaching that a true believer can live any way he wants. If you say, 'no'....
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No way, the bible is clear about that...I am early in the word, been walking with our Lord nearly two years, and I know that no way can we walk the way we want to, that is living in the flesh, that is against God...I learned something yesterday, the opposite to Gods Righteousness is lawlessness, so if we walk in our own way then we are rebelling against God, to walk in the Holy Spirit we are abiding to what God calls us to do, not in our own will but His, but yes people can as we all do sometimes walk in the flesh, I am learning that our walk is a journey through valleys and mountains, and it is through the trials that are faith really comes in to action, be a doer of the word and not a hearer comes to mind, this is what happened to me the other night, my faith was tested when I was rushed to hospital under blue lights, my flesh screamed fear, but my faith that I put in Christ calmed me, if I layed back and let fear grip me, Ii would of put Jesus second...Let us all be a doer and not a hearer...xox...
 
PHart said:
Let's see what you teach: Just us tell us straight out.....can a true believer live any way he wants and still remain saved? Yes, or no? If you say 'yes', then you are in fact teaching that a true believer can live any way he wants. If you say, 'no'....
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Why would this matter to you, how a true believer lives or doesn't live? In your false gospel of maintaining salvation it makes no difference; the true believer can live any way they want as long as he or she keeps giving mental assent to facts.

Seems you're in the same boat you attempt to place another since you don't believe in evidence of true conversion. In fact, you don't even believe in true conversion. You deny the validity of the true convert experiencing being foreknown unto glorification which cannot be undone according to Romans 8.

To you, they weren't converted, they were granted opportunity to give effort unto their own salvation to save themselves. So too for yourself, if you don't keep believing, you will end up in hell - it is up to you, correct? Yes, indeed it is. Christ did not do enough in your gospel, you must help Him.

You believe in evidence of a chance to make it into heaven "if" the person keeps on doing ________ ... If not, your "true convert" goes to hell.

That is definitely a false gospel.
 
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A strange association of slander came to light.
Two people invent the same lie, and just repeat it without evidence.
Both think the other has it, but neither does. A third comes and trusts the other two so a lie
and a slander compounds. This is why facts and argument are needed in all things.

If one concludes a statement or idea means another is true without a proper connection,
it is capable to create any falsehood. I praise the Lord he gives us wisdom and love to
defeat all these things. And the way you defeat it is to think the best of others before they
show you something else and then you still love them.

Jesus loved Judas, though he never understood.
Praise the Lord amen.
 
Magenta said:
tenor.gif


I got it, thank you, Rosemary! :):D:)

Here is Alistair's ministry website :)

https://www.truthforlife.org/
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HAHA lol, that got me ...Just ate my sandwich with a nice cup of tea as I wind down for the night...Yes I have his website, he is also on my Ipod while I go out and about...:)...xox...
 
preacher4truth said:
Why would this matter to you, how a true believer lives or doesn't live? In your false gospel of maintaining salvation it makes no difference; the true believer can live any way they want as long as he or she keeps giving mental assent to facts.

Seems you're in the same boat you attempt to place another since you don't believe in evidence of true conversion. In fact, you don't even believe in true conversion. You deny the validity of the true convert experiencing being foreknown unto glorification which cannot be undone according to Romans 8.

To you, they weren't converted, they were granted opportunity to give effort unto their own salvation to save themselves. So too for yourself, if you don't keep believing, you will end up in hell - it is up to you, correct? Yes, indeed it is. Christ did not do enough in your gospel, you must help Him.

You believe in evidence of a chance to make it into heaven "if" the person keeps on doing ________ ... If not, your "true convert" goes to hell.

That is definitely a false gospel.
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This little talk fails badly. Converts are converts walking with the Lord.
As soon as you say they are not because they can walk away you are repeating your theology
as if it is ours. You demonstrate you cannot think outside your concepts.

The irony is if one is good soil bearing fruit in the Kingdom why would you ever leave.
But at what point is something certain? The only people who care are those not sure
and want an exit door. Compromise and be safe is a good spot, or they hope so.
 
It's funny how several here continue to claim they! do! not! maintain! their! salvation!, yet, if THEY! do! not! keep! believing!, they lose their salvation.

Uh huh.
 
Rosemaryx said:
HAHA lol, that got me ...Just ate my sandwich with a nice cup of tea as I wind down for the night...Yes I have his website, he is also on my Ipod while I go out and about...:)...xox...
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Careful, Alistair is one of those Reformed Calvinist guys. Phart tells us they are all false teachers. (Pretty much because the Reformed preach the whole counsel of God and have defended "eternal security" all along)

Signed,

A Reformed Calvinist Guy ;)
 
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PHart said:
Let's see what you teach: Just us tell us straight out.....can a true believer live any way he wants and still remain saved? Yes, or no? If you say 'yes', then you are in fact teaching that a true believer can live any way he wants. If you say, 'no'....
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I asked if someone went out and murdered people, did not repent etc. in their view are they going to heaven?
If they had faith at some point, yes. As the apostles wrote, no, murders,theives liars do not enter heaven,
only the repentant, clean and holy. In there past, long gone, ok, but not their present.


A biblical view is after repentance shown by the walk, then salvation.
 
preacher4truth said:
It's funny how several here continue to claim they! do! not! maintain! their! salvation!, yet, if THEY! do! not! keep! believing!, they lose their salvation.

Uh huh.
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Ever notice how sometimes people "don't make sense" yet somehow in their mind they "do make sense".
 
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preacher4truth said:
Why would this matter to you, how a true believer lives or doesn't live? In your false gospel of maintaining salvation it makes no difference; the true believer can live any way they want as long as he or she keeps giving mental assent to facts.

Seems you're in the same boat you attempt to place another since you don't believe in evidence of true conversion. In fact, you don't even believe in true conversion. You deny the validity of the true convert experiencing being foreknown unto glorification which cannot be undone according to Romans 8.

To you, they weren't converted, they were granted opportunity to give effort unto their own salvation to save themselves. So too for yourself, if you don't keep believing, you will end up in hell - it is up to you, correct? Yes, indeed it is. Christ did not do enough in your gospel, you must help Him.

You believe in evidence of a chance to make it into heaven "if" the person keeps on doing ________ ... If not, your "true convert" goes to hell.

That is definitely a false gospel.
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Hi Preacher, I was taught early on in my Christian life that Justification and Sanctification are two separate issues. We are brought to the fullness of who Christ is in our life over time, our practical holiness is a pursuit; our positional holiness in Christ happens immediately when we are born again.

If we do sin we have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ. We are not saved one minute and not saved the next. Pharts, Illustration of how a Christian can lose their salvation is childish and he should go to his room for disobeying the gospel truth, don't you think.......:)

Romans5:20
"The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more."

Romans6:1,2
1) What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
2) By no means! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer?
 
What I fail to see is why the magic formula works for so many when it is so obviously wrong.
The clue is in buying a ticket. Faith bought an eternal ticket that is never lost, even if nothing
remains consciously in their mind.

But zero scripture and lots of the opposite, faithful people getting it wrong and being Judged.
David, Moses, Solomon. They were not covered, but paid a price.
Even walking faithfully means losing it all, so the up side is emotional.

But then these guys are very poor on this.......lol.
 
preacher4truth said:
It's funny how several here continue to claim they! do! not! maintain! their! salvation!, yet, if THEY! do! not! keep! believing!, they lose their salvation.

Uh huh.
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It's funny how you think 'believing' is a work that can not justify.

"4Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness" (Romans 4:4-5 NASB)

Where are you getting in the above passage that 'believing' is a work that is credited as a wage?????? (And note, believing' is in the present tense).

Where did this crazy gospel come from that says believing is a work of the damnable works gospel that can not justify?
 
preacher4truth said:
Careful, Alistair is one of those Reformed Calvinist guys. Phart tells us they are all false teachers. (Pretty much because the Reformed preach the whole counsel of God and have defended "eternal security" all along)

Signed,

A Reformed Calvinist Guy ;)
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Hi P4T...We have to mind anyone who speaks Gods truth, many get carried away in their own thoughts that can lead us a stray, but I do like Alistair, he is clear and his preaching is simple, I have seen him preach on YouTube, and he always has his bible in front of him, leading us to the Scripture he is preaching from then voices his opinion, the ones I watch out for are the ones who preach without a Scripture in their hand, they waffle on playing to their own tune...As for reformed and lots of other meanings from where or who people come from I have yet to learn, but for now I like those who feed us from the word of God, then I can pause and look it up...xox...
 
preacher4truth said:
Careful, Alistair is one of those Reformed Calvinist guys. Phart tells us they are all false teachers. (Pretty much because the Reformed preach the whole counsel of God and have defended "eternal security" all along)

Signed,

A Reformed Calvinist Guy ;)
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I don't condemn the belief that a true believer can not stop believing. I've made it clear over and over that I respect the argument, but simply don't agree with it. Now for some of the other Calvinist nonsense.....
 
Rosemaryx said:
Hi P4T...We have to mind anyone who speaks Gods truth, many get carried away in their own thoughts that can lead us a stray, but I do like Alistair, he is clear and his preaching is simple, I have seen him preach on YouTube, and he always has his bible in front of him, leading us to the Scripture he is preaching from then voices his opinion, the ones I watch out for are the ones who preach without a Scripture in their hand, they waffle on playing to their own tune...As for reformed and lots of other meanings from where or who people come from I have yet to learn, but for now I like those who feed us from the word of God, then I can pause and look it up...xox...
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You should listen to Paul Washer on Youtube, he will bless you. If you can handle the accent, D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones is one of the greatest Bible expositors ever. (His accent isn't really all that much though).

If you take time to listen to him in your quiet time, you will be blessed and grow. :)
 
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