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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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MAN...you sure like to play games don't you...You have said more than once YOU MUST CONTINUE in the faith or you lose salvation....and you indicate it in almost every post you make...the bolded is false...one cannot lose salvation after they have biblically trusted Christ....there is NO LOSING salvation it is eternal....
I do believe that. That's why I continue to believe. He's the only way I can be saved. I can only continue to believe and be saved because of his power. He doesn't do my believing for me. He didn't when I first got saved. And he doesn't now. That's my responsibility. But I can only believe because he gives the gracious gift of faith--the ability to even know the gospel is true--to do that believing. That's why I can't boast in my believing. I can't do that on my own. I have to choose to rely on Christ to continually show me the gospel is true so I can then continue to trust in that truth. So do you. It seems you (sometimes) also believe that one must abide to remain saved, if I'm not mistaken. It's just that you think every believer will always abide.
I don't think you disagree with the requirement to continue to believe to be saved.
You said one can stop believing, if I am remembering right.
The mustard seed..
That's all it takes for faith to take in our ground..."earth, temporal, being". That mustard seed has roots that go so deep that one cannot stamp them out.
The mustard seed..
That's all it takes for faith to take in our ground..."earth, temporal, being". That mustard seed has roots that go so deep that one cannot stamp them out.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Exactly. So when are you going to start having faith in Gods power. And not your power to not fail?
And PS. Your will always fail, Yuo can work as hard as you want, you will still fall short.
A lot of you in the equation.
Again, when will your stop trusting self and start trusting God?
If one fails...it is because the ground is not yet prepared. But, He doesn't stop wooing and drawing. Eventually, all that the Father gives Him, will come to Him, and he that comes is in no wise cast out.
His Presence makes us well. Both before and after the Cross of salvation...the wholeness of men restored. Healing comes no other way. We don't put faith in our faith...in Jesus. He manifests.
I get the above.
To me the ground has been prepared but he tenders the seed planted to grow.
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PHart
Guest
Where are you getting out of this quote that I was saying that you believe that one can lose salvation?
You made it crystal clear that you believe one can not be lost. What I'm pointing out is your insistence that a true believer can never stop believing is actually an affirmation that continued believing is required to be saved. The only difference between me and you is that you think a believer can never stop believing, not that continued believing isn't required to be saved. Comprehend?
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PHart
Guest
I see that you simply have no capacity to understand the argument. You seem to have no capacity to even be able to understand any other thought outside of your own predetermined doctrine. You can't even see that my reliance is on God who makes it possible to believe, therefore, we can not boast in the believing that we do.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
what I see if you have no capacity to understand the obvious.
You teach God will not fail,. But men do.
Then claim men can lose salvation if they fail.
Then claim you do not teach a works based salvation based on MANS ability. And expect me and everyone else to believe that.
But hey. Thats ok, The Pharisee and jews could not understand it either.
Hi E-grateful, I'm just supporting your point, God never fails even when we do, trusting in God is something believer's develop over time after many trials and testing. Maybe at some point the Grace plus works folks will see the bright light. How did the Israelites pass through the waters on dry land with only the power of God's hand. How did Noah and his Ark save the human race, his ark had no power of its own to guide, only God. We must get into the life boat but let the ship that is sinking go or you
will go down with ship and die.
Pastor Dwight L Moody of Chicago peached a wonderful sermon and asked the question; If your ship was sinking would you take the time to patch the leaks or get into the life boat. One person answered that would be foolish and I might go down with the ship and die, of course I would get in to the life boat and live. Pastor Moody said it is the same with the Gospel, only believe and be saved. Your works would be a fatal mistake to try to fix the boat and save your self, get into the life boat and forget about trying to maintain what God has already accomplished. Excuse me for the long post....
"Thus by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be strongly encouraged." Hebrews6:18
"If we are unfaithful, he remains faithful, since he cannot deny himself." 2Tim2:13
"God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?" Numbers23:19
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UnderGrace
Guest
Our continued belief after being born again is not what maintains or gives us our salvation
Our salvation is sealed by the Holy Spirit at the moment of being born again
You are close to making the singular event of salvation a subjective reality that only exists while you believe that it exists
Once one is born again, salvation is maintained by the grace and power of God, not by the self-effort belief of the believer
Our salvation is sealed by the Holy Spirit at the moment of being born again
You are close to making the singular event of salvation a subjective reality that only exists while you believe that it exists
Once one is born again, salvation is maintained by the grace and power of God, not by the self-effort belief of the believer
I explain the emotional pain to others as being 3 times as bad as losing a parent. It will be two years come November 2nd. Slowly but surely God has healed the deep wound, and HE is replacing it with found memories. Sure there are times when an unexpected memory, brings tears, but I can still thank HIM for the memory. We were married for 36 years, so I remind myself, that more years than many get. I can even look at old photo albums and smile, instead of cry. In fact I put those old pictures, in the photo albums after she passed away. I found that to be theraputic, and it started the healing process.
Our continued belief after being born again is not what maintains or gives us our salvation
Our salvation is sealed by the Holy Spirit at the moment of being born again
You are close to making the singular event of salvation a subjective reality that only exists while you believe that it exists
Once one is born again, salvation is maintained by the grace and power of God, not by the self-effort belief of the believer
The view that one can lose salvation if they do not maintain it flat denies that Jesus begins, finishes and completes the work of faith he began in us.....it also flat denies that he KEEPS US BY HIS POWER and saves us to the uttermost...
What part of being KEPT by the POWER of GOD is so hard to understand and to lose it GOD MUST FAIL......ridiculous!
Don't you think JESUS really enjoyed those precious moments, when he could just enjoy being human at May and Martha's house, or at home with his Mother?
[video=youtube;mzzVwci8qJY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzzVwci8qJY[/video]
Oh yes and I was trying to clear my eye's a little bit so I could read your post. I see we are also close in age as well, I will be 68 next year,
The worst grief that I have experience was when my wife's Mom passed away, especially at her funeral. The tears and deep felt pain I still remember but time does heal the hurt. Sometime the grief can last a life time but in my wife's culture they are taught at an early age that mourning and grief are okay but not healthy for extended periods of time. So I took a lesson to heart from my wife. Be well and God bless.