Not By Works

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dcontroversal said:
Amazing how many equate Abraham being justified and saved by faith to either his circumcision and or the offering of Isaac.....it is clear that Abraham believed GOD and it was put to his account for righteousness....what exactly did Abraham believe that justified him......? The promise of God to make of him a great nation when he was called out of UR.........LONG before his circumcision and the offering of Isaac......
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How do we know Abraham was justified by his faith? By what he did (Genesis 22:12). But so many are sure what they do has no bearing on whether or not they have been justified by faith. They take false confidence in a profession of faith that has no works following because as they like to say, "salvation is sooooo not of works". And so back to their 'Game of Thrones' viewing they go.
 
PHart said:
How do we know Abraham was justified by his faith? By what he did (Genesis 22:12). But so many are sure what they do has no bearing on whether or not they have been justified by faith. They take false confidence in a profession of faith that has no works following because as they like to say, "salvation is sooooo not of works". And so back to their 'Game of Thrones' viewing they go.
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Because the bible states clearly he was justified by faith...man...you are in the same grouping as Peter...a cake taker.....

ABRAHAM believed GOD and it was put to his account for righteousness.

Therefore we conclude a man is justified by faith without works.

and your Galatians stance is also a joke.....he was not only addressing saved, but also false teachers who were saying they were saved by faith, but kept by works....and his statement is rhetorical......no different than if I was standing and told a crowd of people that if you place yourself under the law and believe that you must keep the law to stay saved Christ will profit you nothing because the law does not save......

You will never see the truth as long as you keep your working for, I keep myself saved rose colored glasses on.........ever...
 
dcontroversal said:
Because you erroneously push that one can walk away and lose it....You by default push salvation based upon what YOU DO....how is it that you cannot see that you constantly push...."I" and what "I do" to remain saved....there is NO doing anything to REMAIN SAVED....it is a ONE OFF event with eternal consequence....your working for dogma is evident because YOU MUST REMAIN to KEEP YOURSELF saved.....and the fact y0u can LOSE or KEEP IT based upon what YOU DO OR DO NOT DO = a works based gospel!
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You who teach the church, show me the scripture that says faith is a work of the damnable works gospel that if I think I have to do it I'm trying to earn my salvation. That's all you have to do and I'll stop posting and admit my error of doctrine.
 
dcontroversal said:
Because the bible states clearly he was justified by faith...man...you are in the same grouping as Peter...a cake taker.....

ABRAHAM believed GOD and it was put to his account for righteousness.

Therefore we conclude a man is justified by faith without works.

and your Galatians stance is also a joke.....he was not only addressing saved, but also false teachers who were saying they were saved by faith, but kept by works....and his statement is rhetorical......no different than if I was standing and told a crowd of people that if you place yourself under the law and believe that you must keep the law to stay saved Christ will profit you nothing because the law does not save......

You will never see the truth as long as you keep your working for, I keep myself saved rose colored glasses on.........ever...
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Calm down and reread my posts. You're letting your hysteria blind you to what I actually said. You're seeing what you want to see in what I posted. Abraham was indeed justified by his faith apart from and before his work. His work proves that. Did you bother to read Genesis 22:12 I mentioned?
 
PHart said:
You who teach the church, show me the scripture that says faith is a work of the damnable works gospel that if I think I have to do it I'm trying to earn my salvation. That's all you have to do and I'll stop posting and admit my error of doctrine.
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The proof is in the pudding....

Bible--->Saved eternally by faith based upon the work of Christ

You--->Saved by faith but must be maintained and kept by what YOU do or do not DO

The latter is a works based false gospel and is exactly what Paul addresses in Galatians which was the error of saying saved by faith but kept by what you do (works, law abiding, etc.)

And I or ME interjected into what Christ has done through faith for salvation = a works based dogma.....regardless of how one slices and dices.....
 
this is what they say- we are saved by faith, proven and maintained by good works, and as long as we have faith, and do good works, then we get grace.

that makes logical sense. but, IT IS NOT BIBLICAL. what you just said is. grace, faith, works, in that order.
 
PHart said:
I know you are being facetious but isn't leaning on security in Christ having faith in Christ? How did faith in Christ become a work of the damnable works gospel? When did this happen? Who started it? I think Calvinism has gone amok in the church. This doesn't seem to be an isolated thing happening in the church nor bound to any particular denomination. That's what makes me think this is the end times work of demons in the church.
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It happened when faith stopped being faith, But something which does not equal faith.
 
PHart said:
How do we know Abraham was justified by his faith? By what he did (Genesis 22:12). But so many are sure what they do has no bearing on whether or not they have been justified by faith. They take false confidence in a profession of faith that has no works following because as they like to say, "salvation is sooooo not of works". And so back to their 'Game of Thrones' viewing they go.
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Gen 15: 6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

No one should have any question at all, we know abraham was justified by faith based on the fact GOD TOLD US HE WAS.
 
PHart said:
You who teach the church, show me the scripture that says faith is a work of the damnable works gospel that if I think I have to do it I'm trying to earn my salvation. That's all you have to do and I'll stop posting and admit my error of doctrine.
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SMH

John 6: 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

Please show me where Jesus said our faith which grants all who believe salvation, is our own work.
 
gb9 said:
this is what they say- we are saved by faith, proven and maintained by good works, and as long as we have faith, and do good works, then we get grace.

that makes logical sense. but, IT IS NOT BIBLICAL. what you just said is. grace, faith, works, in that order.
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It is just another way to harden ones heart.

They can get out of saying they teach salvation by works, if they change it to say they are saved by faith which has to continue until death, proven by our works.

Some pastor or leader along time ago must have gotten sick of trying to explain how they do not teach works, when he knew they could not say it the way they were saying it, Yet, instead of being teachable, and see why they could not explain, and try to find truth, they hardened their heart more and changed the focus from works to faith, Yet the message was still the same.

Sadly, As we see, that "twist" has followed and is still believed by some today.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
SMH

John 6: 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

Please show me where Jesus said our faith which grants all who believe salvation, is our own work.
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Amen....you will not find it.....faith is a gift and is dealt by God in measure unto men.........
 
eternally-gratefull said:
It is just another way to harden ones heart.

They can get out of saying they teach salvation by works, if they change it to say they are saved by faith which has to continue until death, proven by our works.

Some pastor or leader along time ago must have gotten sick of trying to explain how they do not teach works, when he knew they could not say it the way they were saying it, Yet, instead of being teachable, and see why they could not explain, and try to find truth, they hardened their heart more and changed the focus from works to faith, Yet the message was still the same.

Sadly, As we see, that "twist" has followed and is still believed by some today.
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AMEN......as dealt with by Paul to the Galatian assembly.....start a walk by faith, but made complete by the flesh.....and regardless....I have said it and will say it again...any and all who teach salvation can be lost or forfeit by what one does or does not do, teaches a works based gospel at it's very core......
 
The damnable part of PHart's faith belief lies in the fact he thinks;

1) He believed by his own volition contrary to John 1:13 &c;

2) That he must continue by his own volition to believe or he will end up in hell (Well, really, he has stated that one would have to stop believing, and then "screw up" as well to make way to hell finally showing his made up ideology absurd. So it is not only to stop believing, bnut now he's thrown in "screwing up" as well. IOW, you can stop believing and make it into heaven as long as you don't "screw up. That my friends is works-salvation)

3) He isn't understanding faith is the gift of God, and is thus supernatural, not inherent or natural; Ephesians 1:19, Romans 12:3&c.

4) This misunderstanding on his part has made faith mental assent to facts that he can deny later, since he did this himself in the first place;

5) He doesn't really get what a believer truly is, which is the logical conclusion of his ideology.

That said, he has made faith, an inherent striving for mental assent to facts, which if a person does not do incessantly, they lose their soul into hell.

So, let's stop with the twisting and pretense that we are making faith in Christ a damnable heresy. No, no, it is your unbiblical take on faith, PHart, that has done this.
 
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TruthTalk said:
Thanks for the correction blue........ Noah built an Ark not an Arch, Arch's don't float, Ark's do.....:)
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Blue is like on it.....she keeps us all in line HAH.....I wonder how many think of God's promise when they see the BOW (arch of color) that he gave to remind the word of the flood and how he would never again destroy the world by water......Something I have pondered for some time....Why water the 1st time and fire the last time......??

Anyway.....me pondering out loud....
 
preacher4truth said:
You mean he wasn't in St. Louis? :D
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My handicapped son loves the arch.....was supposed to drive him by it today as a matter of fact on the way to Children's Hospital, but I am sick and decided to not be crammed in the truck or car with him for the 2 hour drive there and 2 hour drive back.....been almost two years since I have been sick.....sucks....
 
TruthTalk said:
Thanks for the correction blue........ Noah built an Ark not an Arch, Arch's don't float, Ark's do.....:)
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Arches don't float, eh?

Advertising-PVC-Arch-Floating-with-Logo-Inflatable-Arches-for-Water-Sports.jpg
 
I might be small, but I have a mighty roar.. lol Laughing.png


. Roar.jpg


dcontroversal said:
Blue is like on it.....she keeps us all in line HAH.....I wonder how many think of God's promise when they see the BOW (arch of color) that he gave to remind the word of the flood and how he would never again destroy the world by water......Something I have pondered for some time....Why water the 1st time and fire the last time......??

Anyway.....me pondering out loud....
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