Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

many have invented their own covenant conditions, and accept Jesus if He qualifies and fits their religious structure....If HE complies with their covenant, and their lusts of the flesh, then He is welcome to have a so-called personal relationship with them, thus HE is approved of and accepted by them.(the not of works accept Jesus crowd)...........However, salvation is about God's covenant, and HIS conditions, not mans', and it's HIM that accepts us, if our hearts are pure and free from guile.....be blessed

WOW.....I am impressed.....you finally admit exactly what you do in the first line......The covenant is a covenant of faith for salvation....not the self justified I am working my way there by saying I am sinless covenant that you have pulled out of thin air.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Your post is full of hate and prejudice Jesus came to give us hope, there is no hope in your post.

"casting all your anxiety on Him, because He cares for you." 1Peter5:7

AMEN..........the tragic truth.....the Pharisees pushed a working for dogma....they put on an excellent show outwardly, but inwardly were spiritually dead......those who believe in grace through faith go away justified and ALIVE....like the guy who said...Lord be merciful unto me a sinner....Who went away justified...the self righteous, working for Pharisee that condemned the guy who was a low life sinner who had faith.....or the low life sinner that in faith sought the face of the Lord and mercy?

You would think the Pharisees would learn this lesson..............

 

[dcontroversal]

I have heard people say their god would not do this or that.. as to judge by their own evil self...

Some even say I would not believe in a GOD that could not This or that...


We look for the Righteousness of GOD through His Son.

The Almighty is not looking for approval and instruction.. He runs the ship and you can get on board but it is His way or the Highway... it is is for your own safety He runs His Ship this way so Love and abide with joy.


Love Trust and Obey the Almighty GOD through His New Covenant. The Just shall live by Faith in His Son.

So what we hear we are to set our heart to do...

If the love of GOD shown to us through the cross does not move us to want to be perfect and good out of gratitude then what else will?

A willing heart need apply.

Maybe that is your problem....your still looking through your own effort! We do not have to look for what has already been given and IMPUTED BY FAITH in JESUS!

Blessed is the man to whom God IMPUTES RIGHTEOUSNESS without the deeds of the law (works)

 

[loveme1]

Maybe that is your problem....your still looking through your own effort! We do not have to look for what has already been given and IMPUTED BY FAITH in JESUS!

Blessed is the man to whom God IMPUTES RIGHTEOUSNESS without the deeds of the law (works)

And Blessed are they who do His Commandments....that they may have the Right to the Tree of life.

I look and listen to the Good Shepherd for Instruction I'm not ashamed of that. You misuse verses to assist your beliefs.. and yes.. you can say the same goes for me.. and around we go..

I still believe the Messiah when He states I am to obey Him to call Him Lord.

I still believe Him that I'm to love GOD with all my heart and my neighbour as myself...

And yes Blessed is the man whom GOD imputes righteousness without the deeds of the law.


But use it not against the good works our Lord teaches us.. for then you understand it not.

 

[PHart]

Maybe that is your problem....your still looking through your own effort! We do not have to look for what has already been given and IMPUTED BY FAITH in JESUS!

Blessed is the man to whom God IMPUTES RIGHTEOUSNESS without the deeds of the law (works)

They are probably referring to this verse:

"5For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness." (Galatians 5:5 NASB)​

The church does not know about many verses of scripture because they are taught to not be able to see them by this 'you have it all now and you can't lose it no matter what' doctrine sweeping many away in the church to destruction.

Notice again how this waiting is through a continuing faith.

 

[TruthTalk]

Your ship is being tossed to and fro, you're not for sure if you've done enough to merit heaven, if your works are plentiful enough to hear ‘Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’[Matthew 25:23]

Your ship has started sinking as your faith is weak...

But be of good cheer. We have One who saves us continually and will make sure our ship makes it safely to the harbor regardless how hazardous the ocean is...

And He will guide us safely home...

While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.[John 17:12]

Nice to meet you SovereignGrace, great post, point to point, never like to miss a good sea story.....

 

[PHart]

And Blessed are they who do His Commandments....that they may have the Right to the Tree of life.

I look and listen to the Good Shepherd for Instruction I'm not ashamed of that. You misuse verses to assist your beliefs.. and yes.. you can say the same goes for me.. and around we go..

I still believe the Messiah when He states I am to obey Him to call Him Lord.

I still believe Him that I'm to love GOD with all my heart and my neighbour as myself...

And yes Blessed is the man whom GOD imputes righteousness without the deeds of the law.


But use it not against the good works our Lord teaches us.. for then you understand it not.

Few see that to confess Jesus with your mouth and then live in willful, unrepentant, careless sin is actually a contemptuous unbelief. An unbelief that will cause them to eventually lose the sacrifice of Christ that they think they possess no matter what they do.

The problem all comes down to the church's failure to understand the link between faith and works. They can only understand works in salvation as those works earning salvation. I've talked to people on line who think they are trying to earn their own salvation if they purposely try to do something righteous.

We have decades and decades of misguided, even Spiritless leadership and their foolish teachings to blame for this present crises destroying the church. I'm of the opinion that the church is already destroyed. I just left my church and I honestly don't know of a church to go to that will accurately function and lead God's people to the truth of how to live as Christians. All I see is this 'get saved and continue doing what you were doing before because you are now forever and irreversibly saved' gospel, a gospel that suaves their consciences by forming groups of ineffective and misguided helps ministries. I see lots of immature, angry, petty, uneducated, Spiritless Christians that do not look or sound any different than the world outside of the church except for their occasional confession that they are saved.

It's quite pathetic. Key here is 'Spiritless'. They may well have the Spirit in a saving relationship through Christ but they have no education by anointed and gifted leaders on how to walk in it. And so they take a misguided comfort in simply having the Spirit in them. They literally take it 'by faith' that the Spirit is in them--they can't feel him, don't see him, they don't sense him. They just accept 'by faith' that He is in them because they got saved in the third grade, or whatever. Folks, if you can't see your faith in your life you got problems that need to be addressed before the Day of Judgment comes. You may well not have what you think you do. 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 isn't going to save you on that Day as you have been taught.

 

[dcontroversal]

And Blessed are they who do His Commandments....that they may have the Right to the Tree of life.

I look and listen to the Good Shepherd for Instruction I'm not ashamed of that. You misuse verses to assist your beliefs.. and yes.. you can say the same goes for me.. and around we go..

I still believe the Messiah when He states I am to obey Him to call Him Lord.

I still believe Him that I'm to love GOD with all my heart and my neighbour as myself...

And yes Blessed is the man whom GOD imputes righteousness without the deeds of the law.


But use it not against the good works our Lord teaches us.. for then you understand it not.

Yeah....no thanks and I will stand secure in the eternal salvation afforded dia faith, grace and fully understand that any wok produced is produced by Jesus in and through me as a living sacrifice.....and Your right in saying that I can easily say you misuse verses as well to push a dogma that has no power......and the point I made was valid....YOU still LOOK for that which is not given by your effort....it is given BY FAITH and it is the righteousness of CHRIST IMPUTED.....here is a definition...maybe you can grasp it's value...

Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

logizomai: to reckon, to consider​

Original Word: λογίζομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: logizomai
Phonetic Spelling: (log-id'-zom-ahee)
Short Definition: I reckon, count, decide
Definition: I reckon, count, charge with; reason, decide, conclude; think, suppose.

QUESTION

What does WITHOUT WORKS mean?

 

[dcontroversal]

Few see that to confess Jesus with your mouth and then live in willful, unrepentant, careless sin is actually a contemptuous unbelief. An unbelief that will cause them to eventually lose the sacrifice of Christ that they think they possess no matter what they do.

ght.

Right there is your problem....The above is a lie....NO ONE here promotes that and it leads to your faulty logic and a conclusion that is false......and until you quit misrepresenting the actual truth you will be found a what exactly?

 

[dcontroversal]

They are probably referring to this verse:

"5For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness." (Galatians 5:5 NASB)​

The church does not know about many verses of scripture because they are taught to not be able to see them by this 'you have it all now and you can't lose it no matter what' doctrine sweeping many away in the church to destruction.

Notice again how this waiting is through a continuing faith.

Mare fallacy from your mind found here.....

THE church is a misnomer ....on the planet are CHURCHES, as in plural, and again your Jesus must be a different Jesus than the one found in the bible...The one I know starts, finishes and completes the work of faith in me, saves me to the uttermost and keeps me by his power....Too bad the one you believe in is an utter failure that cannot finish his work and needs your help......tragic for sure!

 

[PHart]

So, are you resting in yourself, which is no rest at all?

Or are you resting in the Christ, which is our rest, our Sabbath?

We enter into Rest through our belief:

"3For we who have believed enter that rest" (Hebrews 4:3 NASB)

But you keep saying my believing is my works effort to save myself and is no rest at all. Yours is a most misguided and mixed up doctrine. Faith in Christ is never on the side of the works that can not save in the Bible, but you keep putting it there. But then you turn right around and talk about entering into the rest which the Bible says is entered into through faith. Which is it?

In your doctrine, is our believing a laborious work of self effort that can not save, or is it how we enter into God's rest?????

 

[PHart]

Mare fallacy from your mind found here.....

THE church is a misnomer ....on the planet are CHURCHES, as in plural, and again your Jesus must be a different Jesus than the one found in the bible...The one I know starts, finishes and completes the work of faith in me, saves me to the uttermost and keeps me by his power....Too bad the one you believe in is an utter failure that cannot finish his work and needs your help......tragic for sure!

Show me in the Bible where my faith in Christ is a damnable work of the works gospel. That's all you have to do but you have not done that in all these weeks I've asked you to do that. None of you have. That's because what you teach is not in the Bible. Faith in Christ is never on the side of the works of self effort in the Bible. Never. But there are lots of passages in the Bible that say we must continue in the believing we started to be saved when Christ returns. Fewer and fewer churches are teaching this. And they are not teaching what faith must look like in a person for their faith to be shown to be the faith that saves apart from works. And if it don't look like that, it ain't the faith that saves all by itself apart from works.

 

[PHart]

Right there is your problem....The above is a lie....NO ONE here promotes that and it leads to your faulty logic and a conclusion that is false......and until you quit misrepresenting the actual truth you will be found a what exactly?

You either live in a bubble, or you have very dark glasses on. Oh wait, didn't you say you live out in the wilderness? And yet you can tell me that my observation of how the church lives and acts is wrong? Really?

 

[dcontroversal]

Show me in the Bible where my faith in Christ is a damnable work of the works gospel. That's all you have to do but you have not done that in all these weeks I've asked you to do that. None of you have. That's because what you teach is not in the Bible. Faith in Christ is never on the side of the works of self effort in the Bible. Never. But there are lots of passages in the Bible that say we must continue in the believing we started to be saved when Christ returns.

You state clearly that YOU must do something to maintain.....how is it that you cannot understand that IF YOU HAVE TO MAINTAIN YOUR Own salvation based upon what YOU DO or DO NOT DO IT IS A WORKS BASED EFFORT which denies the fact that JESUS is the one that BEGINS, FINISHES and COMPLETES the work of faith while SAVING to the uttermost and KEEPING by his power.....the following makes it clear....

A. JESUS begins the work of faith <---JESUS
b. JESUS finishes the work of faith<---JESUS
c. JESUS completes the good work<--JESUS
d. JESUS saves to the uttermost<---JESUS
e. WE are KEPT by his POWER<-----JESUS

WHERE do you see your name in the equation above...

Your gospel.

a. JESUS saves but you must maintain<----PHART
b. JESUS saves but you must FINISH<-----PHART
c. JESUS saves but you must complete it<---PHART
d. JESUS saves but YOU CAN LOSE IT<----PHART
e. JESUS saves but kept by your work<---PHART

Where is JESUS in the equation......you can deny all you want....your words and stance denies the first a-e and usurps JESUS in favor you what you do or do not do....that is a self working for salvation....end of story

 

[dcontroversal]

You either live in a bubble, or you have very dark glasses on. Oh wait, didn't you say you live out in the wilderness? And yet you can tell me that my observation of how the church lives and acts is wrong? Really?

Yep...THE church is false.......individual churches, autonomous bodies with their own stance, works and validity before God...equal in power and scope with the right to come before God as an individual body....and you assume much erroneously I might add....I personally know and socialize with, speak with and have even visited with at least 50 pastors/preachers from at least 20 different states and no less than 10 countries....so.....get your facts straight......

 

[TruthTalk]

They are probably referring to this verse:

"5For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness." (Galatians 5:5 NASB)​

The church does not know about many verses of scripture because they are taught to not be able to see them by this 'you have it all now and you can't lose it no matter what' doctrine sweeping many away in the church to destruction.

Notice again how this waiting is through a continuing faith.

Hi Phart, this is a good post and not as anti Grace plus nothing as some of your posts are; but still you assume that Churches are not teaching the "whole counsel of God" -- where does that come from in your thinking, where's the proof.

I like this verse from Galatians 5:5

"For we through the Spirit, (no work) by faith, (no work) are waiting (no work) for the hope of righteousness."(no work) (Galatians 5:5 NASB)

Nice post, True Gospel

 

[PHart]

e. JESUS saves but kept by your work<---PHART

It's amazing that you still do not understand the argument.
This is the argument:
JESUS saves and keeps us BY OUR FAITH (not our work)<--PHart

Works are simply the visible manifestation of the faith that saves and keeps saved. But so many in the church think the lack of change in them and their worldly lives in no way signifies either way if they are truly saved or not. They simply do not know the scriptures. Even when they read the scriptures they can't see what the church has taught them not to be able to see. The church, IMO, is already destroyed. There is nothing left now but for the end to come. This thinking is the false doctrine that destroys the church in the end times. It's happening right before our eyes. Those who have eyes can see it.

 

[dcontroversal]

It's amazing that you still do not understand the argument.
This is the argument:
JESUS saves and keeps us BY OUR FAITH (not our work)<--PHart

Works are simply the visible manifestation of the faith that saves and keeps saved. But so many in the church think the lack of change in them and their worldly lives in no way signifies either way if they are truly saved or not. They simply do not know the scriptures. Even when they read the scriptures they can't see what the church has taught them not to be able to see. The church, IMO, is already destroyed. There is nothing left now but for the end to come. This thinking is the false doctrine that destroys the church in the end times. It's happening right before our eyes. Those who have eyes can see it.

Nice twist, not what you teach...I have seen you say not less than a few times that YOU MUST MAINTAIN FAITH....puts it square on your shoulders and not JESUS.....try again

 

[PHart]

Hi Phart, this is a good post and not as anti Grace plus nothing as some of your posts are; but still you assume that Churches are not teaching the "whole counsel of God" -- where does that come from in your thinking, where's the proof.

I like this verse from Galatians 5:5

"For we through the Spirit, (no work) by faith, (no work) are waiting (no work) for the hope of righteousness."(no work) (Galatians 5:5 NASB)

Nice post, True Gospel

It's all about faith. But the error the church is making is thinking that the faith that is alone (void of works) is the faith that Paul says saves alone apart from works. Let's read the very next verse to the verse you posted above:

"4You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything (towards justification--vs.4), but faith working through love." (Galatians 5:6 NASB)​

The faith that justifies apart from works is the faith that loves. Of course, you will probably only be able to hear that as 'works save', instead of what it actually means, that the faith that saves all by itself will not be by itself but will instead be evidenced by works of love (see the verse above).

The faith that justifies/saves all by itself is the faith that can be seen in how it loves--how it keeps God's commands, not violates them. That is not a works gospel but so many in the church can only comprehend it as that. And again, I thank countless misguided, uneducated, Spiritless leaders in the church for blinding the church to this truth. But I know this is happening as prophesied.

 

[PHart]

Nice twist, not what you teach...I have seen you say not less than a few times that YOU MUST MAINTAIN FAITH....puts it square on your shoulders and not JESUS.....try again

That's what I've been saying, lol! You have to keep believing in order to stay saved!

But you can only hear that as, "you have to keep working to earn salvation". You're a victim of this end times church. You can not hear what I'm saying because you have been taught, directly or indirectly, that to say faith has to work for it to be revealed as true justifying faith is to say that works justify. I'm am in no way saying that. The problem is that is all you are able to hear.