Not By Works

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Zi said:
If I died while lying and justifying it? Yeah I'm flaming hot.. Your misunderstanding needs the correction. I'm quite clear
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I don't think it was for lying that they died but that they were testing the authority of Peter through Holy Spirit. IMO
 
7seasrekeyed said:
oh that's nice. yuck

this elder (same one) was once sitting a couple rows in front of me during a meeting. a friend was beside me

at one point, he turned around for no reason and glared at me and the look was not quite human

my friend got startled as she had seen it and she gasped at me 'what was that about'

I just said 'I don't know' but I did know. I seem to have that effect often enough. they don't like me

I had an interesting experience yesterday. I had to go out to do the laundry because we are currently waiting for our washer and dryer and this older man comes in with a woman and they begin to do laundry. He was talking pretty loud and started going off on Trump. that's typical enough, but his words were more than his opinions. it was a well rehearsed speech that many have said under the direction of things they don't know exist

I moved away because I was going to use the dryers. well, he and she came over to where I was, right behind me and off he goes again.

so I prayed and rebuked the thing and told it to shut itself down...quietly of course. do you know he stopped and began a different conversation and at one point he picked up something he thought I had dropped and politely handed it to me. I was like 'this is the real person'.

it turns out he dropped something and I picked it up and gave it to him and we exchanged smiles and thank yous

it's all around and going on all the time.
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powerful truth lady...

Reminds me of Jesus in Mark 1.21-28
 
PHart said:
Technically, by definition, a heretic is simply someone who goes against accepted orthodoxy. Often the commonly accepted orthodox doctrine is just flat wrong. For example, Luther challenged the false but commonly accepted doctrines of his day, and so, by pure definition, he was a heretic.

But the way we throw the word around we mean it in it's negative connotation. It means someone who has departed from the truth and wandered off into error.
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Maybe if we threw out all these orthodoxy opinions of man, we might come to unity? Like just studying the bible?
 
stonesoffire said:
I don't think it was for lying that they died but that they were testing the authority of Peter through Holy Spirit. IMO
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Acts 5.1-11


5 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, [SUP]2 [/SUP]and kept back some of the price for himself, with his wife’s full knowledge, and bringing a portion of it, he laid it at the apostles’ feet. [SUP]3 [/SUP]But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? [SUP]4 [/SUP]While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.” [SUP]5 [/SUP]And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came over all who heard of it. [SUP]6 [/SUP]The young men got up and covered him up, and after carrying him out, they buried him.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Now there elapsed an interval of about three hours, and his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And Peter responded to her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for such and such a price?” And she said, “Yes, that was the price.” [SUP]9 [/SUP]Then Peter said to her, “Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out as well.” [SUP]10 [/SUP]And immediately she fell at his feet and breathed her last, and the young men came in and found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And great fear came over the whole church, and over all who heard of these things.
 
Before he dropped dead Peter said in v 4 .. why have you considered this in your heart, you haven't lied to men but to God.. it was because of the lie... Now we'll see the justifying crowd say because it was unto God. But All liars will have no part...
stonesoffire said:
I don't think it was for lying that they died but that they were testing the authority of Peter through Holy Spirit. IMO
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oldethennew said:
===================================

sorry to intrude, but, your question is so very easy to answer, -
we must USE the Gift of Faith that Jesus has blessed/given to us,
we must USE it to the best of our ability, and then????, when we do???,
He imparts to us even more FAITH,
as we travel along and along in our journey...
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I understand. I believed, even just a few weeks ago, that I was doing the keeping. But I have seen that He is doing it. It took quite a while for me to see that. I thought that by my struggles of faith (my favorite example is not fearing for my provision and not storing treasure on earth) I was the one growing my faith. So I understand you. :)
 
You beat me to it!!
Meggido said:
Acts 5.1-11


5 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, [SUP]2 [/SUP]and kept back some of the price for himself, with his wife’s full knowledge, and bringing a portion of it, he laid it at the apostles’ feet. [SUP]3 [/SUP]But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? [SUP]4 [/SUP]While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.” [SUP]5 [/SUP]And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came over all who heard of it. [SUP]6 [/SUP]The young men got up and covered him up, and after carrying him out, they buried him.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Now there elapsed an interval of about three hours, and his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And Peter responded to her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for such and such a price?” And she said, “Yes, that was the price.” [SUP]9 [/SUP]Then Peter said to her, “Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out as well.” [SUP]10 [/SUP]And immediately she fell at his feet and breathed her last, and the young men came in and found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And great fear came over the whole church, and over all who heard of these things.
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Nope sinners do not enter in, none of us is good enough and never will be.

Hence Jesus finished His work.




Zi said:
So Ananias and Sapphira died for what reason then?

Jesus and Paul said ALL liars do not enter in..

Dying for lying AFTER new birth they entered in?

Jesus finished His work not ours.. Nice try tho
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Zi said:
So Ananias and Sapphira died for what reason then?

Jesus and Paul said ALL liars do not enter in..

Dying for lying AFTER new birth they entered in?

Jesus finished His work not ours.. Nice try tho
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when you believe that you are infallible due to the predestination clause, that is to be translated superior, you can say anything to anyone and call it holy

scary, isn't it?

I can honestly hardly believe some of what is to be read here

absolute denial of scripture, twisting of scripture and just plain tearing some of it out of the Bible
 
Well, where was Holy Spirit? He wasn't floating around was He?

Peter knew what happened by a gift of Holy Spirit. He lies...and opposes the authority of Peter.
 
Stunnedbygrace said:
Huh...? Is that a Canadian game? I've never heard of it. Do you use a jar of pickles in the game...? :D
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It is the fastest growing sport in North America.

Here is a video of it from CBS sports. In the first few minutes it talks about it.

[video=youtube;mWYgsanCmPE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWYgsanCmPE&t=2335s[/video]
 
Stunnedbygrace said:
Maybe this would help...
I know that you believe the faith you were given was a gift and did not come from you but from God - that you were saved by faith, through the kindness of God, and even that faith was not of yourself so no man can boast.
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I hope you've been able to discern the distinction I'm making between 'faith', and the 'believing' that follows from faith.

Faith is a supernatural enabling given to a person by God, as a free gift, to know that something is true that they can't see or know in their own ability or power is true:

"1Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1 NASB)


​
The gift of faith is how God comes to a person to convict them of the gospel. He does that through the testimony of the Holy Spirit speaking into the hearts of people:

"It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth." (1 John 5:6 NASB)​


​
Most people choose to discard what God has shown them to be true about the gospel, in effect calling Him (the Holy Spirit) a liar (as the Pharisees did when they refused to believe the testimony of the Spirit in the miracles of Jesus):

"the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony (of the Holy Spirit) that God has given concerning His Son." (1 John 5:10 NASB)

​

​
But then there are the few of us who don't discard what God has shown us to be the truth and we choose to believe in what we now know to be true through the testimony of the Holy Spirit, and we hold fast to it in ourselves and are saved:

"10The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony (of the Holy Spirit) in himself" (1 John 5:10 NASB) ​


​
As you probably know, in scripture it says, "Many are called, but few are chosen" (Matthew 22:14 NASB). Many hear the voice of the Holy Spirit in a convicting of the truth of the gospel, but it is us few who then believe on what the Spirit has convicted us as being true. And so God 'chooses' us on the basis of our faith (our believing) in Him.

The point is, God gives us the power and the ability--the faith (see the definition of faith above)--to know the gospel is true. And he gives it as a free gift. But it is then incumbent upon us to then place our trust--our believing--in what he has shown us to be true through his gracious gift of enabling faith. And it is this decision to believe that is the condition that must be satisfied, and kept satisfied until the Day of Salvation for us to be saved on the Day of Salvation.

God's gracious gift of faith (the ability to know something is true that we can't see) is the power he gives for us to do the believing/trusting that we are required to do in order to be saved. And last time I checked, believing/ trusting in Christ is not on the 'works' side in Paul's 'faith vs. works for justification' treatise in Romans, so believing and trusting is hardly the effort of trying to save oneself as some are insisting here in this thread.



Stunnedbygrace said:
Explain how you think you have been able to keep your faith and grow in faith, despite the world, your own flesh and the devil, seeking to destroy it?
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Maybe what you mean to ask is, "how have you been able to keep believing and grow in that believing, despite the world...?"

I can because 1) I want to (I don't want to go back to the world--been there, done that), and 2) God is faithful to keep me supplied with a generous offering of his gracious gift of faith (the ability to know something is true) which makes it so I can continue to then believe and trust in what he has shown me to be true.
 
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Does scripture say they did not enter in


Zi said:
So Ananias and Sapphira died for what reason then?

Jesus and Paul said ALL liars do not enter in..

Dying for lying AFTER new birth they entered in?

Jesus finished His work not ours.. Nice try tho
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It wasn't about authority. That's not even mentioned.

It's a telling that some aren't aware that we can hear from God. Had they known, they wouldn't have been so ready to lie.. they thought they were bro's going over sales..
stonesoffire said:
Well, where was Holy Spirit? He wasn't floating around was He?

Peter knew what happened by a gift of Holy Spirit. He lies...and opposes the authority of Peter.
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Meggido said:
Acts 5.1-11


5 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, [SUP]2 [/SUP]and kept back some of the price for himself, with his wife’s full knowledge, and bringing a portion of it, he laid it at the apostles’ feet. [SUP]3 [/SUP]But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? [SUP]4 [/SUP]While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.” [SUP]5 [/SUP]And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came over all who heard of it. [SUP]6 [/SUP]The young men got up and covered him up, and after carrying him out, they buried him.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Now there elapsed an interval of about three hours, and his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And Peter responded to her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for such and such a price?” And she said, “Yes, that was the price.” [SUP]9 [/SUP]Then Peter said to her, “Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out as well.” [SUP]10 [/SUP]And immediately she fell at his feet and breathed her last, and the young men came in and found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And great fear came over the whole church, and over all who heard of these things.
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yup

I wonder how many would drop right here and now for lying to the Holy Spirit

sobering thought I'm thinking

Peter was a man, right? not God I mean

but of course Peter must have waved his wand in a snit or something

or maybe the portal sequencing was upset or off balance

how do you possibly read something so plain and convert it to something banal because it does not agree with your personal revelations?

rhetorical question
 
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