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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
1. please retake your grade 3 reading exam over and after you pass, consider my post again (hint of a joke there)
2. I said nothing even close to what you seem to understand
do you know what transpired between God and Abraham?
it would appear you do not and it has everything to do with how we are saved now
I am sorry you believe obedience is a work
when you accept Jesus as your Savior, you are being obedient to follow the truth
in order to resolve your conflict with what I wrote and what you appear to understand, perhaps a reflection on the following from my post 32522 may help:
I do not know what some people believe works are, but I am getting the impression they are some sort of odious and very painful burden.
the works of God are ordained and if a slovenly human being thinks he or she is arriving at the pearly gates or cloud 9 with just a Crest smile and a load of 'I did it my way' they are going to be mightily surprised, howbeit (now there's a biblical word for yah) some work for nothing as they work, not of God and not of a heart that is after God but after a name for themself and those monetary blessings they claim are their right as Christians
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We "get to do good works and we are participating in the family business of telling and showing others of the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them" because His life is in us now - but they are not for salvation nor for maintaining being saved.
That's an anti-Christ belief system that is simply a works-based self-righteousness belief system that denies the very work of Christ.
An example of "good works" are when we encourage people to actually believe what Jesus has said and what He has already done. It is a good work to encourage Christians to believe that He alone has obtained eternal redemption for us. Heb. 9:12
Right believing in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection and that we too have died with Him and rose to newness of life - will bring right thinking ( repentance ) which will manifest in His life being seen in our lives outwardly as His fruit is borne on us the branches.
This is what produces real godliness based on Christ alone by grace through faith.
As we have received Christ - so we walk in Him. Col. 2:6-8
This is all done by grace through faith alone in Christ and what He has already done on the cross and resurrection.
Without Him - we can do nothing.
It is a "good work" to encourage people to trust that He who has begun a good work in you will perfect it. (Phil. 1:6)
It is a "good work" to encourage Christians to believe that we are new creations in Christ ( 2 Cor. 5:17 )
It is a "good work" to encourage Christians that Christ alone is our wisdom, our righteousness and our sanctification and our redemption. ( 1 Cor. 1:30 )
It is a "good work" to encourage Christians to believe that we are saved by grace through faith alone in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection and no amount of good works can save us nor "keep us saved". Christ alone is the Savior of the world - especially of believers. ( Eph. 2:8-19 & 1 Tim. 4:10 )
It is a "good work" to encourage Christians that we will walk in the good works that God has already prepare for us to walk in as His life becomes manifested in and through us to reveal the love and grace of our loving Father and our Lord has for others. ( Eph. 2:10 & Phil. 2:13 )
It is a "good work" for us to encourage Christians that we are safe in the hands of the Lord and we who truly believe have been sealed by the Holy Spirit and He will be in us forever - just like Jesus said. ( Eph. 1:13, 4:20 & John 14:16 )
It is also a "good work" to remind Christians that there is a warning for not relying on the life of Christ in us for life and living while on this earth.
All the works of the flesh will bring destruction in this life of some sort - whether living the homosexual lifestyle or the exhibiting of malice, outbursts of anger, deceitfulness or the slandering of others in the body of Christ.
Fail to rely on the grace of God that is only in Christ's finished work and trying to do things in our own flesh will not get us to experience the life of Christ that is in our inner man of the heart where Christ dwells and where we are in the kingdom of God.
The warning scriptures are needed and to be heeded - once the proper foundation of Christ and His finished work are firmly established in the hearts and minds of us Christians. From there - then the warning scriptures will have their proper place.
If we want to experience our inheritance that is ours in Christ while we are in this earth - it's imperative that we don't live by the flesh.
But the firm foundation is Christ Himself and you can no more lose the redemption that is in Christ then Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.
We are beloved children of our loving Father and He will not throw His beloved children into hell and the lake of fire because they don't do enough "good works".
Where there is "security" - there are the nutrients for "maturity". Let's believe what Christ has said and what He has already done for us and grow in the grace and knowledge of Him.
That's an anti-Christ belief system that is simply a works-based self-righteousness belief system that denies the very work of Christ.
An example of "good works" are when we encourage people to actually believe what Jesus has said and what He has already done. It is a good work to encourage Christians to believe that He alone has obtained eternal redemption for us. Heb. 9:12
Right believing in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection and that we too have died with Him and rose to newness of life - will bring right thinking ( repentance ) which will manifest in His life being seen in our lives outwardly as His fruit is borne on us the branches.
This is what produces real godliness based on Christ alone by grace through faith.
As we have received Christ - so we walk in Him. Col. 2:6-8
This is all done by grace through faith alone in Christ and what He has already done on the cross and resurrection.
Without Him - we can do nothing.
It is a "good work" to encourage people to trust that He who has begun a good work in you will perfect it. (Phil. 1:6)
It is a "good work" to encourage Christians to believe that we are new creations in Christ ( 2 Cor. 5:17 )
It is a "good work" to encourage Christians that Christ alone is our wisdom, our righteousness and our sanctification and our redemption. ( 1 Cor. 1:30 )
It is a "good work" to encourage Christians to believe that we are saved by grace through faith alone in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection and no amount of good works can save us nor "keep us saved". Christ alone is the Savior of the world - especially of believers. ( Eph. 2:8-19 & 1 Tim. 4:10 )
It is a "good work" to encourage Christians that we will walk in the good works that God has already prepare for us to walk in as His life becomes manifested in and through us to reveal the love and grace of our loving Father and our Lord has for others. ( Eph. 2:10 & Phil. 2:13 )
It is a "good work" for us to encourage Christians that we are safe in the hands of the Lord and we who truly believe have been sealed by the Holy Spirit and He will be in us forever - just like Jesus said. ( Eph. 1:13, 4:20 & John 14:16 )
It is also a "good work" to remind Christians that there is a warning for not relying on the life of Christ in us for life and living while on this earth.
All the works of the flesh will bring destruction in this life of some sort - whether living the homosexual lifestyle or the exhibiting of malice, outbursts of anger, deceitfulness or the slandering of others in the body of Christ.
Fail to rely on the grace of God that is only in Christ's finished work and trying to do things in our own flesh will not get us to experience the life of Christ that is in our inner man of the heart where Christ dwells and where we are in the kingdom of God.
The warning scriptures are needed and to be heeded - once the proper foundation of Christ and His finished work are firmly established in the hearts and minds of us Christians. From there - then the warning scriptures will have their proper place.
If we want to experience our inheritance that is ours in Christ while we are in this earth - it's imperative that we don't live by the flesh.
But the firm foundation is Christ Himself and you can no more lose the redemption that is in Christ then Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.
We are beloved children of our loving Father and He will not throw His beloved children into hell and the lake of fire because they don't do enough "good works".
Where there is "security" - there are the nutrients for "maturity". Let's believe what Christ has said and what He has already done for us and grow in the grace and knowledge of Him.
Yeah, after 10 or 15 times I think that I got that. I prefer the New King James myself.
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
Originally Posted by Cee
Noah's faith lead to his works.
that is exactly what I am saying Cee and what I said (the long way) in my post to you
mind you, building the ark was obedience. he could have said no and sat on his grace laurels
The law is fulfilled in one word: love.. which the Messiah taught and Paul affirmed.
[TABLE="class: passage-cols"]
[TR]
[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last"][h=1]Matthew 22:36-40King James Version (KJV)[/h]36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Galatians 5
13For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: passage-cols"]
[TR]
[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last"][h=1]Matthew 22:36-40King James Version (KJV)[/h]36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Galatians 5
13For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
No, actually he couldn't have. He was regenerate and thus he would obey God.
The sermon on the Mount is a good place to begin when Jesus is teaching His disciples, its perfect Christian Doctrine. Matthew 5-7
The essence of the false doctrine of "saved by works" is that it comes in many flavors and colors but it's core belief remains unchanged and it is a direct violation of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection. It is always those that think our loving Father throws His beloved children into hell that come up with this doctrine.
All religions - including the religion of Christianity ( as there is a religion like this that tries to mimic the life of Christ ) - are really manifesting that they are eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which has been set lose in this earth by Adam's transgression.
They are basing their life on what they do or don't do. They are attempting to establish their own righteousness by what they do or don't do what Christ has already achieved through His finished work on the cross and resurrection.
Good works in the wrong context are an example of this.
We see the "descriptions" in the words and actions of Jesus and in the epistles of what the true Christian life looks like when Christ's life and His fruit are being manifested.
The religion of Christianity then takes these "descriptions" and tries to "dictate"to the believers the life of Christ or the fruit of the Spirit into being.
In essence they are trying to mimic or duplicate the life and fruit of Christ and at the same time "demanding" that others do the same thing or else they are not saved.
The true Christian life is Christ Himself joined as one spirit with us manifesting His love, His grace, His life in and through us. It is His fruit - without Him we can do nothing.
All works-based - works-righteousness belief systems ( including the religion of Christianity ) have this as their core essence and it really nullifies the true grace of God from operating in our lives like it should.
This is the "why" behind when people say we must do "good works in order to remain saved". That is what the fruit brings behind the work-for-salvation mindset and to maintain and create righteousness.
The reality is - as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror - we are transformed by the Holy Spirit and the life of Christ will manifest itself in the doing of good works as the fruit of being in union with Him.
We do good works because it is a fruit of being in union with Christ not "to be saved" Christ alone is our Savior.
Preach and teach the love and grace of God in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and Christians will have the proper nutrients to walk out what already is within them - which is Christ in us - the hope of glory.
We live by His life in us now - Christ Himself is that tree of life. Notice it is not the "knowledge of life" ( like it is with the other tree - the knowledge of good and evil ). We live by His life now.
All religions - including the religion of Christianity ( as there is a religion like this that tries to mimic the life of Christ ) - are really manifesting that they are eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which has been set lose in this earth by Adam's transgression.
They are basing their life on what they do or don't do. They are attempting to establish their own righteousness by what they do or don't do what Christ has already achieved through His finished work on the cross and resurrection.
Good works in the wrong context are an example of this.
We see the "descriptions" in the words and actions of Jesus and in the epistles of what the true Christian life looks like when Christ's life and His fruit are being manifested.
The religion of Christianity then takes these "descriptions" and tries to "dictate"to the believers the life of Christ or the fruit of the Spirit into being.
In essence they are trying to mimic or duplicate the life and fruit of Christ and at the same time "demanding" that others do the same thing or else they are not saved.
The true Christian life is Christ Himself joined as one spirit with us manifesting His love, His grace, His life in and through us. It is His fruit - without Him we can do nothing.
All works-based - works-righteousness belief systems ( including the religion of Christianity ) have this as their core essence and it really nullifies the true grace of God from operating in our lives like it should.
This is the "why" behind when people say we must do "good works in order to remain saved". That is what the fruit brings behind the work-for-salvation mindset and to maintain and create righteousness.
The reality is - as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror - we are transformed by the Holy Spirit and the life of Christ will manifest itself in the doing of good works as the fruit of being in union with Him.
We do good works because it is a fruit of being in union with Christ not "to be saved" Christ alone is our Savior.
Preach and teach the love and grace of God in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and Christians will have the proper nutrients to walk out what already is within them - which is Christ in us - the hope of glory.
We live by His life in us now - Christ Himself is that tree of life. Notice it is not the "knowledge of life" ( like it is with the other tree - the knowledge of good and evil ). We live by His life now.
I was just questioning zero. Denadii never took part in this thread. He's a friend of mine is all.
Hi Grace,
Jesus commanded the apostles to go and make disciples of all nations. They were to baptize them and Jesus told them to tell the disciples to obey all that he commanded them. Matthew 28:18-20
And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
The two commands to love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength and to love our neighbor as ourself fulfills all the law and the prophets.
We still need to read and obey all of God's word and apply it appropriately. The 50 commands I listed are commands we need to hear and obey today. They hang on the two.
that is exactly what I am saying Cee and what I said (the long way) in my post to you
mind you, building the ark was obedience. he could have said no and sat on his grace laurels
and been drowned with the rest.....
Hi Desertsrose,
We don't have 50 commands to do in the New Covenant. That is a works based false gospel IMO and will cause many to be ship-wrecked in their faith.
We have those 2 commands as 1 John 3:23 clearly shows and from those the life of Christ is manifested. The gospel is all about Christ! When we believe in Him - then His life will manifest in these things that Jesus talked about.
If you look at the context of Matt. 28:18-20 - Jesus was only speaking to the 11 disciples. These were mandated by Jesus to preach about Him!
Jesus appeared to over 500 people and yet He only gave this charge in Matt 28 to the 11 disciples. ( We are to be a light but that is not the same as Jesus' charge to the 11 disciples )
Many times we take scriptures spoken to specific people and then try to make "every one" do the same thing. This is a gross error which has caused many to ship-wreck their faith. They were "trying to do" someone else's ministry because they were "told to obey Jesus".
Matthew 28:16-20 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,[SUP]20 [/SUP] teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Jesus said that whosoever does the will of God will be saved.
John 6:28-29 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?"
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
Jesus gave them a "new commandment" along with "believing in Him".
John 13:34 (NASB)
[SUP]34 [/SUP] "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
John 20:31 (NASB)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.
Also - the 2 commands to love God will all your heart and soul and mind and strength and to love your neighbor as yourself are from the Law of Moses.
Jesus answered the scribe that asked Him "What is the greatest commandment in the law?"
We don't live by that Law of Moses - we live in the New Covenant which has 2 commandments - to believe and to love. These all come from Christ Himself in us and are not things "we generate" from ourselves.
It is true that love fulfills the intent of the Law but we don't live by the commands of that Law - we live by the life of Christ in us now which as a fruit of His life - we will manifest the "descriptions" of what it looks like when He is living in and through us.
But if you think we have 50 commands to do - that is your choice and you are entitled to believe how you like....
...I have heard that someone one time counted over 100 different commands of Jesus that they thought we had to do. I'll stick with believing in Christ and relying on His life and love to manifest in and through me and thus fulfill the intent of the law.
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Amen, followjesus.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.