Not By Works

[stonesoffire]

Stones what if I were to tell you that the Holy Spirit taught me what I shared? Because if I say otherwise I would be a liar.

He who inspired the Word would not change it.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Two things...

1) Peter denied Christ 3x and most Christians believe he is saved.

2) Peter's belief came in increments. As he ran into the tomb (after he denied Christ) he believed. This is actually quite common in the gospels, you see "they believed" and then a few chapters later they talk about believing more.

Why does this matter? Because the first time was what they had to give, but the effects of their belief increased as they heard His voice more and more.

Many today are not taught they can be lead by His Spirit so they are not walking as sons.

Paul was surprised when people didn't immediately follow Christ perfectly too. But there is Discipleship needed which releases grace to walk after the Spirit in newness of life.

Yet some theologians diminish the power of salvation to account for lack of fruit instead of what Christ declares: lack of discipleship.

Like the days of the Pharisees many are discipled by what traditions say Scripture says or doesn't say instead of being discipled to have a relationship with the Author.

As a result many argue over Scripture traditions instead of living the fruit of His message and following His Spirit.

so was Peter saved prior to Christ's death and if his faith came in increments, although I think we might call that a not actual faith but the road TO faith, was he saved...because then we are talking incremental faith and I don't think that creature has been bred on this planet

you may arrive at faith through various means, but once there, actually there, I would say you grow in that same faith and it is given in different measures as scripture says

I am not convinced of the rest of your post as to me, it sounds like making reasons as to why we should be convinced in your particular perspective

this discussion should begin with Abraham because he was saved BEFORE any commandments and yet he HAD TO OBEY nonetheless for if he had not, he would not have been saved

and interestingly, Moses did NOT have the commandments yet when on his way back to Egypt, God sought to 'kill' him because he had not kept covenant by circumcising his own sons

people around here like to speak covenant talk but seem to miss the Abrahamic covenant and the covenant of circumcision BOTH prior to the commandments and sacrificial system in place for the breaking of same

so hang on a minute here and look at this

salvation was NEVER about keeping commandments

but it has always been about obedience and keeping covenant IN faith

and what are works? aren't they simply the 'good' works the NT actually speaks of concerning feeding the poor, looking after orphans, widows and helping those who need it?

like this:

good works are an extension of the work of grace in our lives

we don't manufacture works to be good, we do them because we have a changed nature. that nature should lend itself to helping those who need it, looking after widows and orphans (James 1), feeding the poor etc. now EVERY Christian should be able to do these without a special calling or 'gift', surely?

“For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.” Ephesians 2:10

and we have the gifts of the Holy Spirit to build up the body of Christ and so sadly used (if you can use a gift and actually still have God's anointing upon it) for self aggrandizement and worship

we are SUPPOSED to exhibit the life of Christ we say we have and I don't think that is some great mystery. it's actually a pretty practical thing

we are supposed to be doing whatever we are doing TO CHRIST...not to or for or of ourselves

I think many many have forgotten then or retired it to the monologue of old retired prophets who had dust on their feet and fire in their eyes

as far as BELIEVING goes, the devil and his angels believe too and are not saved

faith for salvation is the gospel...not just 'I believe' do you know how many people will say they believe in God and yet are not saved?

 

[loveme1]

So the Holy Spirit has taught you everything you know then?

No one is throwing stones...you are projecting again maybe?

I share freely and will be truthful with those believing heresy... the Holy Spirit guides comforts and brings Truth to mind.

I can not consider myself but must share. If it be not Truth then GOD will deal with me accordingly. The power can not be denied nor would I want to deny.. and by His Strength I share.

 

[loveme1]

He who inspired the Word would not change it.

So then believe it.

 

[loveme1]

Matthew 11


5At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

 

[Cee]

Many here have the Holy Spirit and many do not.. the slander you speak of happens all the time and goes unchecked.. I stand by what I have stated.

The Holy Spirit leads and guides in to all Truth and that article is heresy.

The accusations of man will not overcome the Holy Spirits witness... keep throwing stones.. all is well.

Thats your choice, but remember even Peter thought himself correct until Paul corrected him further.

The Spirit of God deals with us differently depending on our level of maturity in Him. I don't advise looking at other people's conduct to justify your own.

 

[loveme1]

Thats your choice, but remember even Peter thought himself correct until Paul corrected him further.

The Spirit of God deals with us differently depending on our level of maturity in Him. I don't advise looking at other people's conduct to justify your own.

Thank you for your advice.. you mean well.

 

[stonesoffire]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Cee again.

add a couple more.

 

[stonesoffire]

So then believe it.

Yes, I would say the same to you.

 

[Cee]

so was Peter saved prior to Christ's death and if his faith came in increments, although I think we might call that a not actual faith but the road TO faith, was he saved...because then we are talking incremental faith and I don't think that creature has been bred on this planet

you may arrive at faith through various means, but once there, actually there, I would say you grow in that same faith and it is given in different measures as scripture says

I am not convinced of the rest of your post as to me, it sounds like making reasons as to why we should be convinced in your particular perspective

this discussion should begin with Abraham because he was saved BEFORE any commandments and yet he HAD TO OBEY nonetheless for if he had not, he would not have been saved

and interestingly, Moses did NOT have the commandments yet when on his way back to Egypt, God sought to 'kill' him because he had not kept covenant by circumcising his own sons

people around here like to speak covenant talk but seem to miss the Abrahamic covenant and the covenant of circumcision BOTH prior to the commandments and sacrificial system in place for the breaking of same

so hang on a minute here and look at this

salvation was NEVER about keeping commandments

but it has always been about obedience and keeping covenant IN faith

and what are works? aren't they simply the 'good' works the NT actually speaks of concerning feeding the poor, looking after orphans, widows and helping those who need it?

like this:

good works are an extension of the work of grace in our lives

we don't manufacture works to be good, we do them because we have a changed nature. that nature should lend itself to helping those who need it, looking after widows and orphans (James 1), feeding the poor etc. now EVERY Christian should be able to do these without a special calling or 'gift', surely?

“For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.” Ephesians 2:10

and we have the gifts of the Holy Spirit to build up the body of Christ and so sadly used (if you can use a gift and actually still have God's anointing upon it) for self aggrandizement and worship

we are SUPPOSED to exhibit the life of Christ we say we have and I don't think that is some great mystery. it's actually a pretty practical thing

we are supposed to be doing whatever we are doing TO CHRIST...not to or for or of ourselves

I think many many have forgotten then or retired it to the monologue of old retired prophets who had dust on their feet and fire in their eyes

as far as BELIEVING goes, the devil and his angels believe too and are not saved

faith for salvation is the gospel...not just 'I believe' do you know how many people will say they believe in God and yet are not saved?

Thank you for your comment.

 

[loveme1]

Yes, I would say the same to you.

Let us both continue to believe all scripture.

 

[BillG]

I have shared much... as for not seeing the heresy ... the Holy Spirit guides and comforts bringing all things to mind...

Originally Posted by loveme1
It is heresy.. if you know not then the Holy Spirit is not upon you either.



Can you respond as to what this heresy is in terms as you see it.
Also why if UG does not see it why the Holy Spirit is not upon her, which I also assume you mean is not in her either.


Ta

Ok I take that as a no then.

 

[stonesoffire]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BillG again.

I must rep Willy nilly....lol, not you Bill. But take a couple more too.

 

[stonesoffire]

Let us both continue to believe all scripture.

very good. A pact!

 

[Cee]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Cee again.

add a couple more.

Thank you

 

[stonesoffire]

Many here have the Holy Spirit and many do not.. the slander you speak of happens all the time and goes unchecked.. I stand by what I have stated.

The Holy Spirit leads and guides in to all Truth and that article is heresy.

The accusations of man will not overcome the Holy Spirits witness... keep throwing stones.. all is well.

I would witness to the truth of the article also. And I too know I have Holy Spirit. And He has me.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Dear Rosemary,​

forgive me.. I'm learning as I go and will make effort to enlarge.. without shouting of course..

maybe it is appearing smaller to you than it appears to myself..

peace and love my dear.


P.s Magenta your text colour is a little faint.. but if no one else is effected then worry not to change just for me.

Hi loveme1...Thank you so much for considering my post, now i can read along ...Your kindness is much appreciated...xox...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In other words, are you saying we are saved apart from the merit of works, but not apart from the presence of works?

Which would be if I understand right, what we teach, except when he adds that salvation can be lost, that makes it a different story. It is not what we teach,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And that's why works are required.
They are required in the same way getting wet is required for the person who goes swimming. But somehow that can only be heard by many in the church as a works gospel. They can't fathom how works must be required in salvation and those works not be the effort to make oneself righteous before God.

thats because saying they are required makes them a prerequisite for salvation, not a direct result, it is the wording used,

your employer demands works to get paid, thus works are required,

 

[Rosemaryx]

So then the presence of works saves.

So how little or how much of the presence saves?

Not saying you belief this, but is he not Phart back were he started? The presence of works having saving value?

Hi UG...I don`t think Phart is saying that at all...From what i see from his post, he is saying that once we have been baptized in Christ, we start to change, if we do not then something is a miss...In my early days when i accepted Jesus as my Savior, i sat back doing nothing lol, to the point my life was dull, now i go out and about and show the changes in me that our Lord is doing...It`s no good if the Holy Spirit is changing me from things that i once was and not going into the world to practice these things, it`s not my working that has changed me it`s the work of the Lord, but it is I who has to be the light on the hill to show Him to the lost, and by doing that i have to get up and do my part...We do have to do our works for the Lord, i know i am saved, sealed and i am secure in Christ as i type, i have no understanding of how one can lose Salvation unless they walked away from God and their hearts become hardened , but like i said, my race is running with Jesus, not running away in fear that i may lose Him, i just can`t imagine that happening, He is my first love and i truly love Him with all my being, even though I am not where i need to be...xox...