Not By Works

[BillG]

It is my understanding that the person who acted wrong did apologize. And it's been rejected. It was a serious sin and resulted in divorce if I understood what was being said. And now they are no longer best friends.

I can see why one would be bitter...but that is the responsibility now of the hurt person to deal with, not the hurter. Do you agree?

Yes I do. If the wrongdoer has asked for forgiveness then it's up to the hurting person to forgive.
Mind you that doesn't mean becoming friends again and the hurting person will need healing as part of the process.

 

[stonesoffire]

I'm talking about the testing of our faith as in, "is this all really true?" As opposed to "I believe in God, but will he take care of me in this difficult time?" See the difference?

Not trusting God in salvation is different than simply being unable to trust God to get you through a difficult situation. It is the testing of our faith in salvation itself that few seem to have been tested in. And it seems it's these untested people that have a strong OSAS, even angry, defense for OSAS. They've simply never come to the cross roads of turning back to Egypt in an abandonment of the promises altogether. And so they think that means they are "once saved, always saved", little knowing that they are simply untested in the area of returning to the world in a denial of Christ.

People only go back to Egypt because God is less than the desire that is in Egypt. I don't see any difference in what you are calling testing of faith to salvation, and what I said.

When troubles rise the first thing the enemy does is try to lie that God isn't faithful. That is our testing of faith in all we go through. It sounds like you are magnifying your testing as greater than others.

Testings are for the purging IMO. Because the blood of Christ not only covers but purges too. How else can one be purged in truth?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

​Hi EG,

You know, I have listened to many steps to salvation from various teachers and from friends. A dear member of my family once stated that when leading someone to the Lord, they must understand the whole process and began speaking of justification, sanctification, etc.


While all that is going in the person's life through the new birth, I don't believe that they have to understand all of those things when the Spirit of God comes upon them and by faith they repent of their sins.

When I was first saved, all I knew is that I was a sinner and in need of God. I knew I had to repent of my sins out loud and ask the Lord to come into my life. That's it. That's all I knew. I didn't envision a cross, I didn't envision that I was condemned to hell. My understanding was plain, cut and dry. I knew practically nothing at all.

I was like that tax collector asking God to forgive me, a sinner. I didn't even consider my eternal destiny. I didn't know anything of what I was getting into.

I only knew I was a sinner and was convicted that I needed forgiveness from God. That's it. It was later on that I begin to learn all that transpired in the spiritual realm. It all happened secretly, without my knowledge, but God opened me up like a bud beginning to bloom.

I learned later what all was taking place. All I can say is that it was the most beautiful thing that's ever happened in my life and I couldn't quit crying for months and months when I considered all that Jesus did for me.

Oh the power of His name that washed a sinner like me.

Paul reasoned from the OT, and thousands got saved, Terms like justification and sanctification we not even known yet, Paul wrote those letter and words to believers to let them know what they had. A person who is snot saved can not even understand them.

I an thinking of opening up a thread to try to discuss what we thin Paul used in the OT to convince people to repent an come to Jesus..

 

[stonesoffire]

Yes I do. If the wrongdoer has asked for forgiveness then it's up to the hurting person to forgive.
Mind you that doesn't mean becoming friends again and the hurting person will need healing as part of the process.

Agree. And is also why I said that there must be a break for rest from this and for recovery.

So what has happened has actually been for the good. Hard to see, but IMO..is truth.

 

[stonesoffire]

No one that I know of. but he needs to look in the mirror. He has done the same..

Thats why it is better just to cut off all conversation..

I'm so far behind Ive forgotten why I asked this. lol

We must all be feisty in nature. lol

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To me given that the person who did the hurting knew they did something wrong then that person needs to accept that they did wrong and go and reconcile. Apologise for doing wrong.

Whilst we do and act contrary to our new nature it is not an excuse to say "That isn't really me"

thats true, But that is not the problem with the one who lost faith in security. We can not worry about what others do. We have to look at Christ, People will hurt us, many, if that takes us out, where is our faith?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

He said he would continue until the day of christ,

He will not fail so why would you think he could fail?



He will keep his promise, that's why you will NEVER fall away. because it is not up to you, it is up to him. Thats why you are not in danger. if you are truly his child.

Again, if you think you can fall away, who are you trusting?

I hope you can see what I am saying..and why I am saying it.

I snuck back in real quick on a break.
I only see that you are repeating what I said...
I think you are having a block to hearing what I've said and have not really heard me. Otherwise, I think you would agree with me since you said the same thing I just said.

It's very odd and I don't quite know how to respond when you are thinking what I said was something different than what you just said.

Did you read my entire post? I'm just...perplexed at what I should answer when you said the same thing I just said in my post...

If God says anyone who doesn't abide will be cut off, then He has told the truth. I don't have to change the definition of abide or of cut off. I just have to keep trusting Him that He will grow my faith so this doesn't happen to me...

I think your block at hearing that I said the same thing you just did is having more to do with the verse than with what I said...because if you will carefully read again what I said, I think you will see it is the same thing you have said...

Very perplexing...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

People only go back to Egypt because God is less than the desire that is in Egypt. I don't see any difference in what you are calling testing of faith to salvation, and what I said.

When troubles rise the first thing the enemy does is try to lie that God isn't faithful. That is our testing of faith in all we go through. It sounds like you are magnifying your testing as greater than others.

Testings are for the purging IMO. Because the blood of Christ not only covers but purges too. How else can one be purged in truth?

People only turn back to egypt because they trusted in the things in egypt and liked that life better than they trust God and the life they THINK they have with him.

Thats why people went back to law. When push came to shove, they trusted law. and not grace.

 

[Rosemaryx]

This song is for all, but Rosemary especially

[video=youtube;r6w5szlpedY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6w5szlpedY[/video]​

Thank you Magenta...Not only a beautiful song but the pictures are amazing to the song...I am alive and my Spiritual eyes are wide open, and i hear Him say to me "Follow me " and i say YES Lord...xox...

 

[PennEd]

Did Satan's choice override God Choice for Satan?

I am going to go real deep here, because people need it...now the infantile spiritually immature mind will scream that this is not a true coma prison, because Satan was an angel....and God had no love for angels.....I do not think for a second that dog will hunt.....why God loves all things he has created....

So you tell me...Did God 's love for Satan keep Satan from having iniquity found in his heart and ultimately keep him from making the choice to exalt himself over God? When this was discovered what did God do?

Satan fell....and became the god of this world....

God's love is constant, but we have choice to receive it and keep receiving it...if we choose to harden our hearts and become a god unto our self, like Satan, then God will do what?

This is apostasy and only believers fall into apostasy...

I agree with parts of this, however to compare satan to human beings is really the epitome of apples and oranges.

satan did not have satan to tempt him. Humans did. I think God recognizes this fact, and that is why He became a HUMAN, not a an angel, or nephilim, to die for OUR iniquity.

So now that I'm getting a little controversial, I'm going to throw out the possibility that satan may have been tempted BY humans. How? Why?

Most people believe satan was jealous of Adam's creation and election to rule over the world. While I think that's true, I'm going to submit there may be a far greater temptation, that he, and his followers miserably failed at, and is why they are reserved in judgement.

As an Angel you have unbelievable power, access to the Heavenly Father, eternal life in joy and bliss, but ONE thing you DO NOT have as an Angel is the ability IN HEAVEN to procreate! ( Yes I went there lol).

The temptation to leave their "Heavenly estate" and Procreate with human women, was too great. Notice how Jude couples the SEXUAL SIN of Sodom, to the SEXUAL SIN of the fallen Angels:
6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them IN A SIMILAR MANNER ​TO THESE, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


But I absolutely agree with you that the self-same lie, that you can be like god, is what tempts people away from Salvation through Jesus Christ.

I know there are quite the few here that highly offended with even the suggestion that fallen Angels mated with human women.
I'd say to them, it's not a Salvation issue, and I love you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I snuck back in real quick on a break.
I only see that you are repeating what I said...
I think you are having a block to hearing what I've said and have not really heard me. Otherwise, I think you would agree with me since you said the same thing I just said.

It's very odd and I don't quite know how to respond when you are thinking what I said was something different than what you just said.

Did you read my entire post? I'm just...perplexed at what I should answer when you said the same thing I just said in my post...

If God says anyone who doesn't abide will be cut off, then He has told the truth. I don't have to change the definition of abide or of cut off. I just have to keep trusting Him that He will grow my faith so this doesn't happen to me...

I think your block at hearing that I said the same thing you just did is having more to do with the verse than with what I said...because if you will carefully read again what I said, I think you will see it is the same thing you have said...

Very perplexing...

Lets try to make it simple..lol

This is what I see you saying

1. God will not let you stop growing, he will continue to grow you, and make it so you can trust him more, he will finish what he started, no and's if's or but's about it.
2. But I can stop growing and trusting, and because of that I can fall away.

Can you see how I can not resolve the problem here? there two phrases contradict each other. That is what I am trying to see, why do you think both are true. or have I misunderstood you again?? lol

 

[BillG]

Agree. And is also why I said that there must be a break for rest from this and for recovery.

So what has happened has actually been for the good. Hard to see, but IMO..is truth.

The promise of God

Romans 8:28-29


28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

I have heard people say that God makes bad things that happen good.
Thats not what the above us saying.
Furthermore the don't go on to v29.

In our circumstances God will work good in them for our good, which is to conform us to the image of Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Agree. And is also why I said that there must be a break for rest from this and for recovery.

So what has happened has actually been for the good. Hard to see, but IMO..is truth.

apart from security in christ, and trying to help him understand that truth, How would one expect him to come back?

if we think about it, He committed the gravest of all sins, He has stopped trusting God. How can he ever think God will forgive him unless he knows God never stopped loving him, in spite of himself.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Lets try to make it simple..lol

This is what I see you saying

1. God will not let you stop growing, he will continue to grow you, and make it so you can trust him more, he will finish what he started, no and's if's or but's about it.
2. But I can stop growing and trusting, and because of that I can fall away.

Can you see how I can not resolve the problem here? there two phrases contradict each other. That is what I am trying to see, why do you think both are true. or have I misunderstood you again?? lol

Yes, but I didn't SAY #2. I believe you heard it, but I didn't say it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The promise of God

Romans 8:28-29


28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

I have heard people say that God makes bad things that happen good.
Thats not what the above us saying.
Furthermore the don't go on to v29.

In our circumstances God will work good in them for our good, which is to conform us to the image of Christ.

Amen, God can take a bad situation and bless us through it, help us to grow, and maybe even use it later in life when the same things happens to some one else

. It is not like he makes the bad thing Good.

 

[Grace777x70]

After I was born again and came to know Christ kneeling by my bed one night when I was a young teenager - I went to a Pentecostal church and I can certainly say that in that religion they did not believe in the eternal security of the believer and it caused a lot of trouble with people's minds.

I saw many people's faith ship-wrecked because of their doctrines.

Inside of me I knew something was drastically wrong but it all sounded so good. It had the "appearance of good" but there was no power other than human will-power being dispensed.

All works-based - works-righteousness religions in one form or other say that we will lose our salvation because it denies the very work of Christ and it changes it to be dependent on ourselves instead of the "revelation of Christ Himself".

They did however give "lip-service" to the Holy Spirit and to the grace of God in the Christians life and of course to Eph. 2:8-10 because how can you get around that scripture?

I'm not saying all Pentecostal churches were like this back in the 70's and 80's but the ones I visited sure were and I was in a few of them from the eastern parts of Canada down through to Texas.

They all gave the same message.

There were great people in there that loved the Lord.

I can also say without a doubt that there was no grace teaching and a warped view of the Father's love and grace for us.

The so-called word of faith in some circles had very little understanding of grace that I could see but I did agree with some of their beliefs - like healing and how the principle of faith works.

To me their focus was off in that they were trying to do things by what they did instead of resting in what Christ has already done. This they too were into works in a form.

They thought if they confessed it enough times - then it would come about. This is vastly different then confessing things because they are already true in Christ by His grace alone.

Once the Lord has revealed to me personally the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection I knew I couldn't go back to that religion again. The Lord said that the knowledge of the glory of Him will fill all the earth and that's exactly what He is doing now.

Let us have ears to hear Father and eyes to see!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, but I didn't SAY #2. I believe you heard it, but I didn't say it.

so you do not think we can fall away and be cast out and burned?

So I hear you asking, what does continued and growing trust have to do with being cut off or not being cut off?

So He said if anyone DOESN'T abide(continue and grow in trust), he is cut off.

So maybe I should define what "cut off" means to me. To me, it means to be severed from the one who gives me life and to wither up and be thrown in the fire.

So to me, the verse is saying anyone who does not continue to, remain in, and grow in trust of Me and My words, will produce no fruit and will wither up and die and will be cast into the fire.

And this is why He sees to my abiding, (why He grows my trust - and only He can cause the growth, even if someone else plants or waters).

So I find that the verse does not make me want to argue. It makes me want to run the race to trust Him more and more. It's all through trust, from beginning to end.

If I misunderstood, forgive me..lol

 

[Rosemaryx]

After I was born again and came to know Christ kneeling by my bed one night when I was a young teenager - I went to a Pentecostal church and I can certainly say that in that religion they did not believe in the eternal security of the believer and it caused a lot of trouble with people's minds.

I saw many people's faith ship-wrecked because of their doctrines.

Inside of me I knew something was drastically wrong but it all sounded so good. It had the "appearance of good" but there was no power other than human will-power being dispensed.

All works-based - works-righteousness religions in one form or other say that we will lose our salvation because it denies the very work of Christ and it changes it to be dependent on ourselves instead of the "revelation of Christ Himself".

They did however give "lip-service" to the Holy Spirit and to the grace of God in the Christians life and of course to Eph. 2:8-10 because how can you get around that scripture?

I'm not saying all Pentecostal churches were like this back in the 70's and 80's but the ones I visited sure were and I was in a few of them from the eastern parts of Canada down through to Texas.

They all gave the same message.

There were great people in there that loved the Lord.

I can also say without a doubt that there was no grace teaching and a warped view of the Father's love and grace for us.

The so-called word of faith in some circles had very little understanding of grace that I could see but I did agree with some of their beliefs - like healing and how the principle of faith works.

To me their focus was off in that they were trying to do things by what they did instead of resting in what Christ has already done. This they too were into works in a form.

They thought if they confessed it enough times - then it would come about. This is vastly different then confessing things because they are already true in Christ by His grace alone.

Once the Lord has revealed to me personally the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection I knew I couldn't go back to that religion again. The Lord said that the knowledge of the glory of Him will fill all the earth and that's exactly what He is doing now.

Let us have ears to hear Father and eyes to see!

Hi Grace...Just finished listening to Andrew Farley and really enjoyed his preaching...I have another one lined up for this evening when i lay my head down......xox...

 

[stonesoffire]

The promise of God

Romans 8:28-29


28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

I have heard people say that God makes bad things that happen good.
Thats not what the above us saying.
Furthermore the don't go on to v29.

In our circumstances God will work good in them for our good, which is to conform us to the image of Christ.

This is good. So even though someone has had trouble with forgiveness and bitterness...God will not stop working on them too. PTL

 

[Magenta]

Meggido's post on my screen is 30622.
Your's is 30858

You purposely went back over 200 posts to pick an argument?!?

After all that CRYIN' to say we need to settle down?!?

You're the Op, & you can't let it go!

OVER TWO HUNDRED POSTS!!!

EVERY ONE ELSE ALREADY FORGOT IT..... BUT NOT YOU.

You had to drag it back up to find another member to get banned.

It's not the first time you've done it, either.

I knew you couldn't stop. You don't have any intention to.

Two hundred posts in this thread can happen in a day.

Everybody else had not forgotten. You bear false witness.