Not By Works
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Hi Fran...Jesus chose Judas because it was part of God`s plan, Jesus knew from the beginning that Judas was a child of the devil, that is why He told the rest of the Disciples in John 13:21 that one will betray Me... After all, Jesus could of chose Judas to set an example to us on how to love our enemies, and not to trust those who say who they are when in reality they are nothing that they claimed to be...Jesus has not, can not, and will not fail...xox...
Resting in Christ and works? What does it mean to enter into the rest of Christ? Does this mean we do nothing?
I don't chafe at the term "our doing". We do participate in what God is doing in and through us.
For it is God who is at work in us - both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He gives us both the desire and the capability. Phil. 2:13
What I would chafe at is the notion that we put "the doing" from ourselves by self-effort and not from the life of Christ in us. It's all a matter of where this "work originates" from - our flesh or from our inner man in Christ.
Outwardly they can look the same. I know that only God that looks on our heart can answer that question but it is subtle difference between works-based righteousness and faith-based righteousness.
Another term I use a lot that may throw some off is that I say we are to "rest" in the finished work of Christ. The word "rest" can bring the connotations to our natural humanistic minds that we do nothing which is not the truth. It's the exact opposite.
I won't speak for the others but as far as works go from a believer in Christ - here is what I believe when considering John Chapter 15 and the "works" of a believer.
Jesus is the Vine - we are the branches. The branch bears fruit..it does not produce it.
Without Him we can do nothing. We are to remain/abide/rest in the Lord - abide/remain/rest in the Lord and what He has done for us in His finished work. John 15
The life of the Vine supplies the "sap" needed for the bearing of fruit but it is His fruit that is produced in us.
Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not a lazy passive existence. When we know that God has already provided everything we need and we access His wisdom, provision, strength by faith - we'll be governed by the Holy Spirit in a highly strategic and active life.
Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not an inactive lifestyle. It's a Spirit-led lifestyle where we flow in His good works ( His fruit bearing in us ) that God had planned for us all along.
Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our obedience in action.
Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our warfare.
Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our faith in action.
Hebrews 4:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.
There is a vast difference between "us" doing things by the flesh and the Lord doing things through and in us. ( there is good looking flesh and bad looking flesh - but it is all still flesh )
We can do things in our own flesh like Abraham tried to fulfill the will of God by creating an Ishmael or wait for the Lord to work through us to produce the child of promise - Isaac. Galatians 4:22-24, 30
Psalm 127:1 (NASB)
Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.
I noticed that both "groups" are building the house. Those that depend on the Lord working in and through them and those that are attempting to do good works within themselves.
Only the Lord knows the heart and the origin or source of good works.
I don't chafe at the term "our doing". We do participate in what God is doing in and through us.
For it is God who is at work in us - both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He gives us both the desire and the capability. Phil. 2:13
What I would chafe at is the notion that we put "the doing" from ourselves by self-effort and not from the life of Christ in us. It's all a matter of where this "work originates" from - our flesh or from our inner man in Christ.
Outwardly they can look the same. I know that only God that looks on our heart can answer that question but it is subtle difference between works-based righteousness and faith-based righteousness.
Another term I use a lot that may throw some off is that I say we are to "rest" in the finished work of Christ. The word "rest" can bring the connotations to our natural humanistic minds that we do nothing which is not the truth. It's the exact opposite.
I won't speak for the others but as far as works go from a believer in Christ - here is what I believe when considering John Chapter 15 and the "works" of a believer.
Jesus is the Vine - we are the branches. The branch bears fruit..it does not produce it.
Without Him we can do nothing. We are to remain/abide/rest in the Lord - abide/remain/rest in the Lord and what He has done for us in His finished work. John 15
The life of the Vine supplies the "sap" needed for the bearing of fruit but it is His fruit that is produced in us.
Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not a lazy passive existence. When we know that God has already provided everything we need and we access His wisdom, provision, strength by faith - we'll be governed by the Holy Spirit in a highly strategic and active life.
Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not an inactive lifestyle. It's a Spirit-led lifestyle where we flow in His good works ( His fruit bearing in us ) that God had planned for us all along.
Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our obedience in action.
Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our warfare.
Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our faith in action.
Hebrews 4:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.
There is a vast difference between "us" doing things by the flesh and the Lord doing things through and in us. ( there is good looking flesh and bad looking flesh - but it is all still flesh )
We can do things in our own flesh like Abraham tried to fulfill the will of God by creating an Ishmael or wait for the Lord to work through us to produce the child of promise - Isaac. Galatians 4:22-24, 30
Psalm 127:1 (NASB)
Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.
I noticed that both "groups" are building the house. Those that depend on the Lord working in and through them and those that are attempting to do good works within themselves.
Only the Lord knows the heart and the origin or source of good works.
John 16:25 “Though I have been speaking figuratively, a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father.
2 Corinthians 4:1-7 Therefore, since through God’s mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart. Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us.
Ephesians 4:25 Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body.
Matthew 16
24Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? 27For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
reward every man according to his works.
24Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? 27For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
reward every man according to his works.
Right believing will bring about right thinking which will produce right living as Christ's life is manifested in and through us to a hurt and dying world that needs to see the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them.
But we must put the horse before the cart and it is "believing in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection" that needs to be the fou8ndation. Other than that - we create a religion that tries to "mimic" the life of Christ.
John 6:28-29 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?"
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
But we must put the horse before the cart and it is "believing in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection" that needs to be the fou8ndation. Other than that - we create a religion that tries to "mimic" the life of Christ.
John 6:28-29 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?"
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
No... the Messiah teaches His Word should be our foundation.
so you have created a religion for yourself.. for we are taught to be perfect and righteous like our Father.
Truly believing the death and Resurrection of Christ is to adhere to His Testimony.
He gave Himself for our forgiveness and reconciliation with GOD....
It is because of what came to pass on the cross and His Resurrection that He can reward us with the gift of Everlasting life.
He will give this reward according to our works.
Worthy is the Lamb.
Nothing could come to pass without GOD's Grace, mercy and love.
He gave Himself for our forgiveness and reconciliation with GOD....
It is because of what came to pass on the cross and His Resurrection that He can reward us with the gift of Everlasting life.
He will give this reward according to our works.
Worthy is the Lamb.
Nothing could come to pass without GOD's Grace, mercy and love.
Your self-inflicted pain must be agonizing.
Another critic with nothing good to say.
Did it make you feel good to insult her?
U
UnderGrace
Guest
U
UnderGrace
Guest
If any of us was yelling we would have used all caps in the post. That signifies yelling in netiquette, so you falsely accuse as well.
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This would explain why she remains in error.
The balance of your post, which I snipped, is utter nonsense, and untrue.
Good luck with that. You are free to have your own opinions...
..For me - I'm relying on what Christ has already done by His grace through faith on the cross and resurrection. I'm going to rely on His righteousness and His perfection.
1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
Trying to live by our own perfection and righteousness is what the Law was all about.
Galatians 2:19-21 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
[SUP]20[/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
These teachings clearly promotes disobedience by implying that Jesus WASN'T SAYING that we need to obey His commandments to prove our love. Purely heretical and anti-Christ. Check your faith if it is in God or in your hypocrisy.
Romans 8:7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
2 Peter 3:16-18 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.
H2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?
U
UnderGrace
Guest
This teaching that exists out there that we are to be perfect and righteous like our Father is incomprehensible to me,
I really was unaware of it until I came to this discussion board.
People must blind themselves to the deceitfulness in their own heart
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jeremiah 17:9
I do not think human nature has changed.
This is why we cling to Jesus because we know His perfection within us and we strive to live in His perfection
When Jesus commands us love one another, we can only do this by putting into operation or manifesting the love of Christ already within us
There is an effortlessness (our effort) to this manifesting of the life within, that can only be understood when one has their life hid with Christ
I really was unaware of it until I came to this discussion board.
People must blind themselves to the deceitfulness in their own heart
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jeremiah 17:9
I do not think human nature has changed.
This is why we cling to Jesus because we know His perfection within us and we strive to live in His perfection
When Jesus commands us love one another, we can only do this by putting into operation or manifesting the love of Christ already within us
There is an effortlessness (our effort) to this manifesting of the life within, that can only be understood when one has their life hid with Christ
Good luck with that. You are free to have your own opinions...
For me - I'm relying on what Christ has already done by His grace through faith on the cross and resurrection. I'm going to rely on His righteousness and His perfection.
1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
Trying to live by our own perfection and righteousness is what the Law was all about.
Galatians 2:19-21 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
[SUP]20[/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
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Legalism - in the biblical sense of the word - is any attitude or belief that human merit can produce, prove, or preserve for one-self an acceptable standing before God.
Whenever our assurance of salvation rests upon our "performance" rather then upon the "promises" of God that are Yes and Amen in Christ - we are in big trouble - we have fallen from grace to rely on our own self-effort so grace does not flow to us.
Obedience in the New Covenant:
In loving God and others as Jesus says is the greatest commandment in the law in relation to obedience.
Obedience to me is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man. It is not the root. It's the love of God and the life of Christ manifesting Himself in and through us to a hurt and dying world and to our fellow brethren.
It is not necessarily something "we do to be" but stems from something we "already are now" in Him and so we "do love" as we grow in our awareness of His love for us.
We obey our Lord and Father because we know Him and trust in His character and obedience is not a set of rules that we follow, but a natural flow of the life of God in us built on a love-trust relationship. When you know the love of God for us we will obey Him naturally and effortlessly.
When our minds are renewed to the truth that is in Christ - we obey from our hearts effortlessly. It's a fruit of being in Christ.
I maintain that obedience is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man that is created in Christ. When we teach the grace of God this enables us to bear His fruit in and through us to reflect the true kingdom of the love and grace of God to a hurt and dying world.
Teach and preach who believers are in Christ because we are in union in one spirit with the Lord Jesus and they will "awake to righteousness" that is in them because they are a new creation in Him and sin not and walk in the good works that God has prepared for them.
Whenever our assurance of salvation rests upon our "performance" rather then upon the "promises" of God that are Yes and Amen in Christ - we are in big trouble - we have fallen from grace to rely on our own self-effort so grace does not flow to us.
Obedience in the New Covenant:
In loving God and others as Jesus says is the greatest commandment in the law in relation to obedience.
Obedience to me is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man. It is not the root. It's the love of God and the life of Christ manifesting Himself in and through us to a hurt and dying world and to our fellow brethren.
It is not necessarily something "we do to be" but stems from something we "already are now" in Him and so we "do love" as we grow in our awareness of His love for us.
We obey our Lord and Father because we know Him and trust in His character and obedience is not a set of rules that we follow, but a natural flow of the life of God in us built on a love-trust relationship. When you know the love of God for us we will obey Him naturally and effortlessly.
When our minds are renewed to the truth that is in Christ - we obey from our hearts effortlessly. It's a fruit of being in Christ.
I maintain that obedience is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man that is created in Christ. When we teach the grace of God this enables us to bear His fruit in and through us to reflect the true kingdom of the love and grace of God to a hurt and dying world.
Teach and preach who believers are in Christ because we are in union in one spirit with the Lord Jesus and they will "awake to righteousness" that is in them because they are a new creation in Him and sin not and walk in the good works that God has prepared for them.
I agree. Relying on Christ's work on the cross and resurrection which is by grace through faith is the "true Christian life".
The gospel is the righteousness of God revealed. Rom. 1:16-17
As we have received Christ which is by grace through faith in His finished work - so we also walk in Him in like manner. Col. 2:6
I believe that true Christians born from above now have a new heart - a cleansed heart where Christ dwells by the Person of the Holy Spirit whom Jesus said would be in us forever. John 14:16 Jesus isn't a liar. We can trust Him.
The renewing of the mind is essential to the outward transformation of the new creation that is in Christ so that others can see the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them.
There will always be a constant battle between "faith-righteousness" verses "works-righteousness" in all it's forms and disguises.
They all nullify the very grace of God that is in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ from operating in our lives like it was meant to.
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mmmm... I'm not making this up...
Is there something wrong with being rewarded a gift for our works..
if it is the Master Himself who requires such work?
Hi Seohce, I hope all is well with you.
I have read your post above.
Maybe it's semantics but I think about it this way.
I obey Jesus, want to be like Jesus not to prove my love but because of my love for him.
There is no doubt about it, we have been called to be like Jesus, to each other and those around us who do not know Jesus.
I have to be honest that on judgement day if we are asked "Why should I let you in?
My response would be "Because of you Jesus, nothing more or nothing less"
I know our works will be tested and the dross will be burned up yet we still be saved.
Part of me thinks also on judgment day in a twinkling of the eye we hear Jesus say "Well done good and faithful servant welcome to eternity" then we look at him and say what have I done to deserve this.
He will say "I know you, when you did this and that you did it for me"
To know him is to love him, to know him is to obey him. We love because he first loved us.
Please know that I am not going at you but just giving my take on obedience to our saviour..
Bill