Not By Works

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FranC said:
Sigh.....


The verse you post is at the END OF JESUS' ministry when Judas was going to betray Him.


Is this really that difficult to understand?
No wonder you have incorrect theology.
You should read the bible more and REALLY try to understand it better.
It would behoove you.
Click to expand...

None of us really know what Judas did while they went out on their ministry trips. Maybe he was just counting the money and taking the offerings.

You really think that Jesus didn't know who and what Judas was? The one who looked at someone and read their hearts? Knew their diseases. And heard and saw what Father was showing and saying to Him?

You think he was just just an ordinary man?

I can see you know nothing about how a spiritual person is when full of Holy Spirit. That's disturbing. Very disturbing to me Fran.
 
FranC said:
JESUS WAS RIGHT.

He picked Judas.
He trusted Judas.
Judas was saved.
At the end of the ministry, Judas decided to help Jesus along (Like Sarah did and make another mess)
Jesus knew Judas would betray Him by now.
Judas MIGHT have been lost at this point.
Who could know for sure?
Maybe he asked forgiveness while he was hanging on the tree.
Or falling off that bridge.

After all, everyone here agrees that we could be saved at the very last moment.

SO, how could you be SO SURE that Judas was really lost???

You do present many theological problem, don't you?
Click to expand...

Jesus chose Judas as a betrayer.

From the beginning,Judas was a devil.

" ....and he chose 12,and one of them was a devil"

The devil in their midst was part of God's plan
 
He repented in the end. Maybe God saved him.

I suspect He did,but Judas was never saved,maybe he got mercy at the end.
 
stonesoffire said:
None of us really know what Judas did while they went out on their ministry trips. Maybe he was just counting the money and taking the offerings.

You really think that Jesus didn't know who and what Judas was? The one who looked at someone and read their hearts? Knew their diseases. And heard and saw what Father was showing and saying to Him?

You think he was just just an ordinary man?

I can see you know nothing about how a spiritual person is when full of Holy Spirit. That's disturbing. Very disturbing to me Fran.
Click to expand...

She really needs to read and re-read Scripture. One wonders if some crack open their bibles at all?

Perhaps being made aware that Jesus, YHWH of the OT already prophesied beforehand what Judas would do, and that Christ would then of necessity already know these things in time when he was incarnate. In fact being YHWH he was aware of all things prior the foundation of the world, being omnisicient and eternal in his being.

Pesky little facts like this, which are plain in Scripture of which she shows ignorance.
 
The last story in judges has one tribe against 11.

It was horrific,and Benjamin was almost completely destroyed.

In the end,through intervention,Benjamin was saved.

God is mighty,and merciful
 
Okay everyone, here's the answer.

We all do good works when motivated by the Holy Spirit.
When we are in sync with him.
And we all push him on the back burner when we decide to do something on our own that maybe we shouldn't do.
This is called "working out our salvation".
This is our life long battle with sanctification.

Let's keep in mind that our own personal agenda does not come from the Holy Spirit, only his agenda.
When we speak in love and softly reflect the truth, then we can know the Holy Spirit is speaking through us.
 
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heartofdavid said:
Works is getting a work out.

I hope it works out ok
Click to expand...

How could works work out?
Our churches are teaching strange things and people have become afraid of the word.
Some here have told me that God is INSULTED by our works and our asking forgiveness because we are already forgiven.

This is some kind of new Christianity that was not known at the time of Jesus.
I've quoted early theologians but THEY are not accepted either.

Only verses and persons that DO NOT BELIEVE in works are accepted here.

I return every now and then for those reading along who may not realize what incorrect doctrine is being preached here.

Then I disappear to catch my breath...
and Pray for those who have been lied to by their ministers, just to fill up churches.
 
stonesoffire said:
3rd time
Is a charm I hope
Click to expand...

I answered this at least twice Stone.

You're quoting THE END OF JESUS' ministry.
By this time He knew Judas would betray Him.

However, at the BEGINNING of Jesus' ministry, Judas was saved.
How can we know this?

BECAUSE.
Jesus sent Judas out with the other 11 Apostles to preach and teach and heal.
Check out Mathew 10:1-15

Do YOU think Jesus would send an UNBELIEVER to preach and teach the WORD OF GOD???

Stop thinking everything I say is wrong because you love Dcon so much and just think about this.
 
You sure do like to twist things :( I believe it was in reference to putting God in our debt by trying to add to our salvation by works

Have you not come to this thread and put yourself under fire by taking the opposing view as always

What I am trying to understand is why?

FranC said:
How could works work out?
Our churches are teaching strange things and people have become afraid of the word.
Some here have told me that God is INSULTED by our works and our asking forgiveness because we are already forgiven.

This is some kind of new Christianity that was not known at the time of Jesus.
I've quoted early theologians but THEY are not accepted either.

Only verses and persons that DO NOT BELIEVE in works are accepted here.

I return every now and then for those reading along who may not realize what incorrect doctrine is being preached here.

Then I disappear to catch my breath...
and Pray for those who have been lied to by their ministers, just to fill up churches.
Click to expand...
 
Many unsaved people preach and teach in every corner of the earth.


FranC said:
I answered this at least twice Stone.

You're quoting THE END OF JESUS' ministry.
By this time He knew Judas would betray Him.

However, at the BEGINNING of Jesus' ministry, Judas was saved.
How can we know this?

BECAUSE.
Jesus sent Judas out with the other 11 Apostles to preach and teach and heal.
Check out Mathew 10:1-15

Do YOU think Jesus would send an UNBELIEVER to preach and teach the WORD OF GOD???

Stop thinking everything I say is wrong because you love Dcon so much and just think about this.
Click to expand...
 
stonesoffire said:
This you just said is a rant of anger. Nothing pertains to what I said. I asked you to present any post that you state any of us have said any of those things you accuse us of. Try to stay focused please.
Click to expand...

I don't rant.

I answered you.

Do you think I'm going to go through each post?
You could do that if you wish.
You WILL find these posts.
:)
 
AllenW said:
Okay everyone, here's the answer.

We all do good works when motivated by the Holy Spirit.
When we are in sync with him.
And we all push him on the back burner when we decide to do something on our own that maybe we shouldn't do.
This is called "working out our salvation".
This is our life long battle with sanctification.

Let's keep in mind that our own personal agenda does not come from the Holy Spirit, only his agenda.
When we speak in love and softly reflect the truth, then we can know the Holy Spirit is speaking through us.
Click to expand...

Allen

The Word is the Word of God. To hold a thought that is entirely wrong is the perversity spoken of in Acts that wolves bring into the midst of believers. Paul would never mince words at all.

It must be confronted with the hope of one seeing their error.

Truth can be hard but I've had many confront me and am glad for it. Fran should take some time off and study on her own. I did. Best thing I ever did.
 
stonesoffire said:
3rd time
Is a charm I hope
Click to expand...

John 6: 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

Jesus knew from. The beginning who did not believe, Judas was included, and it was added not only did he not believe, but he would also betray.

 
Um , it looks like someone telling others to "study up" needs to just take the half second of time and ACTUALLY READ THE BIBLE HERSELF because the given Scripture refutes her already:

I am not speaking of all of you; I know whom I have chosen. But the Scripture will be fulfilled, ‘He who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me.’ - John 13:18

This is in reference to what Christ knew and predicted in the OT, Psalm 41:9.

Now, foolish pride won't allow one to admit to ones own ignorance and blatant error here.

Some need to crack open their Bible prior to banging their keyboard, rebuking others in total ignorance. Unreal.


 
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