Not By Works
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For sure...I was waiting for someone to point that out.....LOL
Having worked in addictions many years ago, I saw many people change their behaviour, behaviour modification does work to some extent.
True only God truly delivers from the bondage of sin, but apart from the spiritual, there are emotions, the will etc.,
People's behaviours can also be enabled by how we interact with them, sometimes because we are more serving as believers, unregenerated people learn to take advantage, the trick is getting them to unlearn it.
As most of you know I had a severe gambling addiction.
if you have read my posts you will know what it did to me and that I got to stage of contemplating suicide.
I eventually asked God to take my life (Even though I had a wife and 4 kids, I knew he would take care of them)
I never considered counselling in the secular sense cause I knew coping mechanisms were not the answer.
For 30 years I struggled and as it peaked with regards to mental state I still did not let go of God.
Then one day God laid me up with a bad back. Laid up for a week. Boy what a week that was.
that was 7 years ago and I have not gambled since and not had the urge to.
What helped me was this verse
"Father may they know that you love them as much as you love me"
That broke my heart that was guarded. God then took me through the process of healing and all the things that caused me gamble. I was set free, set free by the truth and tonne that truth he loves me as much as he loves Jesus.
Even now I am emotional.
God is not interested in leaving stuff with a plaster over he it. He wants to dig out the source of the infection.
Thank you Jesus.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
As believers I agree that a secular approach is not for us because it is settling for less,
because they offer a program a process,
sometimes it works sometimes does not,
however, we have access to Jesus who is able to break the bonds of sin and bring healing
because they offer a program a process,
sometimes it works sometimes does not,
however, we have access to Jesus who is able to break the bonds of sin and bring healing
That's what the book I am reading is talking about. The More Excellent Way...yet based on foundational truth.
I don't usually advertise books or other peoples writings...I cant teach another mans revelation, never could. But, am hoping to find things that I am not yet aware of in this writing.
to Bill posts..
I don't usually advertise books or other peoples writings...I cant teach another mans revelation, never could. But, am hoping to find things that I am not yet aware of in this writing.
to Bill posts..
As believers I agree that a secular approach is not for us because it is settling for less,
because they offer a program a process,
sometimes it works sometimes does not,
however, we have access to Jesus who is able to break the bonds of sin and bring healing
Thank you for saying this, sadly some of my closest family were not able to break the chains, and I grieved a long time.
Consider both of you repped.
Just repped UG for you. I wanted to say from me as well.
Unfortunatley all it says is "From" I obviously hit the wrong button on my IPhone.
Anyway UG 2 reps form "From"
As believers I agree that a secular approach is not for us because it is settling for less,
because they offer a program a process,
sometimes it works sometimes does not,
however, we have access to Jesus who is able to break the bonds of sin and bring healing
Actually what is quite funny since God healed me I have walked with a guy who was non Christian (husband of one of my employees) who had/has a gambling addiction.
i would have no hesitation to suggest secular counselling and that I did.
But I had the opportunity to tell him what Jesus did for me and tell him he could do the same for him.
I was able to see clearly his issues and why he gambled.
But also was honest enough to tell him he was responsible for what he does and it will affect himself and his marriage.
Every time he fell he came to me. He was happy for me to sit his wife as well when he did along with him and dig deeper.
He opened up and boy did he. He tells me he hasn't gambled for 2 years and I believe him. His wife hasn't come asking me for loans anymore.
He hasn't come to Christ but he hasn't gambled because he loves his wife dearly and he actually said he didn't want to let me down as well even though he knows I would still love him anyway.
I have also had the privilege of walking with a few Christians as well.
All I can do here is tell them my story. I'm not trained in this area at all. But as I come alongside things seem to happen.
But if it goes beyond my simpleness here I have to tell them to seek qualified Christian people in our church.
That has happened and when so I have been asked to continue to walk with them.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Yes recidivism is high sadly for any addiction back when I worked in the field, I have not kept up on the stats to see what approaches are used now and what are the success rates.
It is totally heartbreaking.
In the end, I saw they were just using a substance, or something else to fill a deep void only Jesus can fill...
On the streets of Detroit I did see some come to a saving knowledge of Jesus through this outreach program, and they formed a gospel choir, it was quite something.
It is totally heartbreaking.
In the end, I saw they were just using a substance, or something else to fill a deep void only Jesus can fill...
On the streets of Detroit I did see some come to a saving knowledge of Jesus through this outreach program, and they formed a gospel choir, it was quite something.
was it a guetto gospel lolOn the streets of Detroit I did see some come to a saving knowledge of Jesus through this outreach program, and they formed a gospel choir, it was quite something.
It DEFINITELY is the fruit Jesus is taking about.
Jesus CLEARLY tells us that He judges and commands us based on our love for one another.
You might know many people who manifest worldly type of love who are not believers, but that simply shows that WE, the children of Love Himself, are not walking out our true identity in Christ. We should set the bar on love.
We never ever diminish the importance of love.
I can give you numerous Scriptures that show the importance of loving one another, being gentle and kind with another one another. In fact, Jesus says we MUST forgive and John says our love for our brother shows if we even know Him.
What fruit do you think Jesus is talking about? The fruit the Pharisees showed? They thought they were so holy, but they didn't care about or love people. They were so prideful that they made themselves immune to correction about needing God's love and mercy.
And their own actions toward others ended up being their downfall.
Jesus CLEARLY tells us that He judges and commands us based on our love for one another.
You might know many people who manifest worldly type of love who are not believers, but that simply shows that WE, the children of Love Himself, are not walking out our true identity in Christ. We should set the bar on love.
We never ever diminish the importance of love.
I can give you numerous Scriptures that show the importance of loving one another, being gentle and kind with another one another. In fact, Jesus says we MUST forgive and John says our love for our brother shows if we even know Him.
What fruit do you think Jesus is talking about? The fruit the Pharisees showed? They thought they were so holy, but they didn't care about or love people. They were so prideful that they made themselves immune to correction about needing God's love and mercy.
And their own actions toward others ended up being their downfall.
you know billy life to can be a gamble when we put our lifes at risk to feed the family etc... Such is the world my friend there is more than one type of gambling that we must we must raise our sword for and that is risking your life to save another,,, amen... bro glad your cured
I do not disagree with you one bit about your statements on love...but it is not the absolute you make it to be...The Fruit of the Spirit is ultimately not for us...
So the fruit we bear in John 15 is just our love and other character qualities? I think it is far deeper than that...Jesus also said it was....
You are addressing the topical and obvious nature we are to possess... So leaving those good things aside...
What is fruit bearing? Does fruit have seed? What does seed do?
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Okay so John 15.
Let's go there:
11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.
12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another.
Let's go there:
11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.
12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another.
l looked at John. It is karpos as in plucked fruit.
But in Matthew there is a verse that calls seed speiro...and fruit is fertility.
But in Matthew there is a verse that calls seed speiro...and fruit is fertility.
Might help if you back up a bit....The topic of fruit bearing stops in John 15 at Verse 11....you are quoting verses of how the disciples that bear fruit are to relate to each other....
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. [SUP]3 [/SUP]You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. [SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. [SUP]6 [/SUP]If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. [SUP]11 [/SUP]These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.
I do not disagree that Fruit of the spirit is fruit we bear, but it is not the fruit he talks about here...
Well, shucks...will have to check back later...this fruit thing has me interested but I need to go.
thank you Bill for repping for me.
thank you Bill for repping for me.
I think it can be the fruit of the spirit we bare at times but also the fruit of our own spirits too.... coz it is written we will know them by there fruits... so there for we do have fruits too... i pray we all have good fruits and none bad left some day soon i hope...