Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm sorry EG.
I can't stop laughing.

Here's why...

JESUS used analogies BECAUSE WE NEED THEM.
Because we're sooooo far below God.

What I'm trying to say is this:

GOD IS NOT HUMAN.

WE cannot make analogies--- only HE can.
We make them to try to understand Him better NOT because they're actually true.

You say we are of the seed of God?

That means you have the nature of God...
That means you ARE God.

It's a way to make us understand the non-understandable.

UFFA.

Yep he did, So we can understand them

so when we take his anology, Which is used to us a thing we can understannd, to explain a spiritual truth,

and twist it to something that not even we would use in every day life. We take Gods anology and destroy it.

I hope you did not spill your coffee or drink when you laughed, it would have been a waste.

 

[UnderGrace]

Bad teaching comes from all sides and camps.

And this teaching does not help the believer live in victory which is the most sad of all!!

We were channel surfing last night, after church, and Stopped on the Hillsong Channel[normally we would just pass on by] and and heard Carl Lentz, Sr. Pastor of Hillsong Church New York, say verbatim that OSAS and Grace will allow you to grow through being a Christian, including the times, you deny him and the christian lifestyle and work it out in the world and come back....even if you grieve the Holy spirit...he said it did not matter...because grace allows us to try God out and then work it out and be our old selves and all that new man jazz is just religion....we have to be who we are...and all that other junk is just rules...his rebellious spirit came out last night and he lashed out people criticizing hillsong and Brian Houston....t was a travesty....yet there had to be thousands in his church whooping it up....

 

[FranC]

No, it means they understand the Bible.

Please explain Mathew 13 The Sower...

Mathew 13:21

Thanks.

 

[UnderGrace]

LOL.....It is taking much stronger that coffee for me today.

Yep he did, So we can understand them

so when we take his anology, Which is used to us a thing we can understannd, to explain a spiritual truth,

and twist it to something that not even we would use in every day life. We take Gods anology and destroy it.

I hope you did not spill your coffee or drink when you laughed, it would have been a waste.

 

[FranC]

See

there is your problem. In trying to defend her, you have bought the same lie she is preaching.

Please show one post I have stated a child of God will not, or should not do works.

If you have been reading my posts. and understand what I teach, you would not have made such a huge mistake .

And PS. Yes she does teach works, She says works are required to MAINTAIN (keep) SALVATION, that is works..



Yep they are. I posted one this morning, Not of works of righteousness which we have done, but by Gods mercy he saved us.

That is not what Fran teaches, She teaches that it is by works of righteousness that Gods continues to save us. (maintains salvation)

How about eph 2: 8-10 We are saved by grace through faith NOT WORKS, and in our new creation we do works.

How about Heb 11. Where all who had faith did works. as apposed to James 2 where people can claim to have faith all they want, but if they have no works, their faith is dead. (because true faith produces true works)

or Rom 4, were we are told that if we are saved by works, we have something to boast about. because salvation is a wage not a gift. But not before God. Just like Abraham, we have faith in God and it is accounted to us for righteousness.

Or how about romans 11, If it is by grace, it is not by works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. And of course, the it is salvation. o

of course I have posted all of these passages to fran and others numerous times, But it does not help. and I can post many more..

You need to figure out what is going on first. You seem to not even know what I believe, since you asked me to prove something I have never even stated is true.

I judge based on what is said, She says salvation is maintained by works. I judge by what she states.


if your going to rebuke someone, at least get your rebuke right and know what your rebuking.

1. Sevenseas does not need to learn anything from me. Differently from some here --- she has her own mind and beliefs.

2. YOU TEACH !! I didn't know. Where? And where did you get your degree?

 

[FranC]

The context is enduring under persecution, not enduring to gain eternal life.

Really?

What does it mean then when Jesus says that person's love will grow cold?
What does that have to do with persecution?


P.S.

I ask you many questions that you NEVER answer.
Funny. Usually MEN do that.

Please answer this one and all future ones.
Thanks.

 

[UnderGrace]

Well we are partakers of His divine nature ....if we are born again. So yes we do have the nature of God in us.

by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.
2 Peter 1:4

I'm sorry EG.
I can't stop laughing.

Here's why...

JESUS used analogies BECAUSE WE NEED THEM.
Because we're sooooo far below God.

What I'm trying to say is this:

GOD IS NOT HUMAN.

WE cannot make analogies--- only HE can.
We make them to try to understand Him better NOT because they're actually true.

You say we are of the seed of God?

That means you have the nature of God...
That means you ARE God.

It's a way to make us understand the non-understandable.

UFFA.

 

[UnderGrace]

Are you saying you can keep up with this thread you must be Superwoman.

That was a cool movie by the way especially for those of us into conspiracy theories.

Okay, okay let me answer first I have to think.

Men do do that...so so frustrating!!!

Really?

What does it mean then when Jesus says that person's love will grow cold?
What does that have to do with persecution?


P.S.

I ask you many questions that you NEVER answer.
Funny. Usually MEN do that.

Please answer this one and all future ones.
Thanks.

 

[FranC]

I am worried about God. Ralph can not do anything to me, He may be able to take my life, but then I am just face to face with God. so ralph has no power over me.

The fact you think he can have power over anyone, now that should scare you.

Whew!

It DOES scare us!

Just wait till you meet him !!

 

[FranC]

I'll pass on "lightening up" on the truth of the Word and the one Gospel, thanks.

And I'll leave you and others of your ilk with this:

The preaching of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing - 1 Corinthians 1:18. Those who have truly believed the Gospel would never place a personal experience above that.

Oh lighten up for goodness sake.

Not EVERYBODY, except YOU, is going to hell you know....!

Oh.. BTW, You and those of your ilk are ALWAYS judging.
ALWAYS.

ALWAYS sending people straight to hell.
ALWAYS.

Sevenseas did good to leave.
This is getting boring.
Think I'll go do my ironing...

 

[stonesoffire]

Who is Ralph? I can only think of Ralph Waldo Emmerson..lol

Ralph Cramden comes to mind. And I've dated myself again.

 

[Stephen63]

1. Sevenseas does not need to learn anything from me. Differently from some here --- she has her own mind and beliefs.

2. YOU TEACH !! I didn't know. Where? And where did you get your degree?

This is my guess. It came in a little stripped envelope.

 

[FranC]

Here is one person that believes that we must do works in order to keep being saved as can seen in brown above.

I believe that this poster means well but is coming at it from an angle that is not correct IMO.

Personally I believe that the true Christian life when Christ is manifesting in and through us will result in good works of some sort but it's a fruit of His life being born on us - the branches. Without Him we can do nothing.

There are better ways of talking about good works other than to say we must do them in order to keep being saved. That is not the gospel of the grace of God in Christ.

We should be encouraging each other to do good works!

Hebrews 10:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

Wait.

YOU say you do works because you love God.
Do you not say that?

Well, I certainly DO love God.
I do works to keep Him happy.

Jesus said I was to do certain things.
Like Love my neighbor.

I guess that's a bad word "work" to you.

It's a work to me too.
But to me "work" is not a bad word.

If you like, you could give it a different name.
The Church is changing and becoming of no flavor and of no substance.
Call it what you will....
A rose by any other name...

I'm sure God will be happy to hear that you preach to new Christians that works are NOT necessary.

Let's all just sit back and do nothing.


Time for another musical interlude...


[video=youtube;1jjcxFGEysE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jjcxFGEysE[/video]

 

[FranC]

Peoples minds have been changed thankfully. No believer should be left in the uncertainty of conditional security.

Conditional security is ultimately salvation by works......

working to believe, working to have faith, working to please God, working to keep one's free will from abandoning the faith and on and on. Believe what He says is true and you will be blessed by His grace which will be poured out in your heart.

Read what God said to Paul and what he tells us....

[SUP]38 [/SUP]For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8:38-39

IF you could only understand it, I'd explain why eternal security is NOT secure to ANY believer and why Loss of Salvation IS VERY SECURE to ANY BELIEVER.

But I believe it would not be understood.

 

[PennEd]

children by birth are not adopted

yet even they need to be reborn

I don't think you have provided a good analogy or perhaps I need a better explanation of what point you are trying to make

Thanks for the reply. I'll try and explain my thoughts better.

We were ALL spiritually dead, Ephesians 2 [FONT=&quot]And you [/FONT]He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, and again, Ephesians 2 [FONT=&quot] But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

[/FONT]So we WERE dead. We heard The Gospel and believed and were BORN AGAIN. What does that mean? I believe it means we were inhabited by the Holy Spirit, and became a NEW creation. One of God's Children. John 1 [FONT=&quot]12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

[/FONT]So the idea that mere mortal humans, who have children, who would do ANYTHING for them, and would NEVER disown them, could love them MORE than our Heavenly Father loves us, is frankly impossible!

And if one of OUR children were to stray, there is nothing we wouldn't do bring them back to us. They would forever be our children.

So how much MORE will our Father work to find that one sheep who strayed, and do whatever is necessary to bring that sheep Home?

The analogy may not seem good because ALL things DON'T work to the good for OUR children if they stray. BUT, 28 [FONT=&quot]And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to [/FONT]His purpose.

Now either ALL things do work for the good for us or NOT ALL things work for our good.

So we are either born again, and His Child, or we aren't.

I hope this makes sense.

Peace, love, and Grace to you.

 

[preacher4truth]

Yes, you did.
I won't change my old standards for no one..... NO ONE.

You nailed it: they are your old standards, but they aren't biblical standards, in fact it is another gospel altogether.

However, I will still count you as a friend. You can count me whatever you need to, I'll stand on the Gospel.

 

[Meggido]

No man can add any topping to the work of Christ. Any person who believes otherwise is a fool.

and not one person has or stated this in over 50,000 posts...

 

[preacher4truth]

Imagine losing a Christian friend for believing in the sole sufficiency of the work of Christ.











Let that soak in for a minute...

 

[NoNameMcgee]

So simple. yet people make it so hard.

its a shame really....

 

[UnderGrace]

A person's love grows cold is a statement about the times Jesus is describing, whether it be 70 AD or the end times I do not want to get into that part of it.

The apostle's were to endure the hateful attempts of others to deceive them, since the passage also speaks about false teachers.

Jesus no where in the whole talk mentions eternal salvation.

If you look at Mark 13 a parallel passage you will see that it states "no flesh will be saved"

Therefore the promise is, if they endure, all these terrible things that will happen, that they will be delivered from physical death.

Capisci?

Really?

What does it mean then when Jesus says that person's love will grow cold?
What does that have to do with persecution?


P.S.

I ask you many questions that you NEVER answer.
Funny. Usually MEN do that.

Please answer this one and all future ones.
Thanks.