Not By Works

[RedeemedGift]

1 Corinthians 11
20When you come together, it is not the Lord’s supper that you eat. 21For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal. One goes hungry, another gets drunk

*****


People get sick and die because some folks allow others to starve....not because God is punishing people for their sins by making them sick.


Sickness and suffering is due to the sinful nature of the world....NOT because God is punishing people.

Why did Jesus suffer?

Verse 22... "What! Do you not have houses in which to eat or drink?"

Paul is speaking of those who go hungry, not starvation.

God does indeed discipline those who belong to Him, and it can very severe. Sin is in the world, but it is with us still also (1 John 1:8) and there is sin that leads to death (1 John 5:16).

Ananias and Sapphira sinned to their deaths in Acts 5. No one took their lives but God alone.

 

[Ariel82]

Verse 22... "What! Do you not have houses in which to eat or drink?"

Paul is speaking of those who go hungry, not starvation.

God does indeed discipline those who belong to Him, and it can very severe. Sin is in the world, but it is with us still also (1 John 1:8) and there is sin that leads to death (1 John 5:16).

Ananias and Sapphira sinned to their deaths in Acts 5. No one took their lives but God alone.

Read it again....they eat their own meals. Its not a potluck but a private picnic. The rich just eat and get drunk and party, while the poor starve to death.

Paul says this is a problem of sectarianism and how people are not respecting the communion feast to come together as one body with equal members but selfishly for their own freshly pleasures.

Notice the words "21For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal"

 

[Ariel82]

James 2:3 ►
New International Version
If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, "Here's a good seat for you," but say to the poor man, "You stand there" or "Sit on the floor by my feet,"

 

[RedeemedGift]

I see what you are saying. They were quite out of control. But they were corrected by Paul. I don't know that I would assume those believers lived the rest of their lives unfruitful and so come to the conclusion that some believers never live a fruitful life...in fact, it would be fearful to suppose that because any branch that doesn't bear fruit is cut off.

I didn't say they lived the rest of their lives without fruit at all. I was speaking in light of this topic as a whole with regards to salvation's relationship with works, why the latter has no bearing on the former.

The truth is that some believers will be "saved, yet so as through fire" (1 Corinthians 3:15). I don't believe the context of John 15:6 fits the view of hellfire at all.

 

[LoveGodForever]

"By the seventh day God had finished the works He had been doing; so on the seventh day He rested from all His works. And God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all the works of creating that He had done." (Genesis 2:2-3). God’s Sabbath-rest occurred when God finished and permanently ceased from all His works of creation, and it was on the seventh day of creation week that God permanently ceased from all His works. There is a distinction between God’s Sabbath-rest (the permanent ceasing from works) and the later established seventh-day rest (the temporary ceasing from works). The seventh day rest was established after God had already finished and permanently ceased from all His works. The seventh day rest, then, was simply a temporary, weekly reminder of the permanent, unceasing reality of God’s Sabbath rest from creation. Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. - Colossians 2:16-17 The seventh day rest was a temporary, physical shadow or reflection, that represented the permanent, spiritual reality of God’s Sabbath rest from Creation, a spiritual reality of rest that is now found only in the body of Christ: We who are born again into the body of Christ are born into the permanent, spiritual reality of God’s Sabbath rest, where we find permanent rest for our souls.

Seems you are still trying to justify your interpretation of 2 scriptures over the 200+ to hold on to your man made traditions. Ok let’s have a look at what you’re saying above again. I think you missed the point from a section of an earlier post I sent to you or you did not read it. Let’s go through it again for those that may have missed it?

GEN 2
1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Scripture context points:

· God finished all the work of creation on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day of the week (v1)
· God ended His Work on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day of the creation week and rested from all His work of creation, it was completed no more work required (v2)

· God blessed the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day and set it apart as a holy day as a memorial of creation

Critical questions and answers:

When was God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath made, before the fall of mankind or after the fall of mankind?
It was made BEFORE the fall of mankind at the end of the creation week on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day!

Was God’s work of creation a FINISHED WORK or an UNFUNISHED WORK?
The 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath was the result of the FINISHED AND COMPLETED WORK of creation!

When were God’s Laws and the laws of Moses given, before the fall of mankind or after the fall of mankind? Obviously AFTER the fall of mankind (Ex 20:1-17, Lev 23:1-44, etc) they were part of God’s plan of salvation.

It has already been shown in previous posts that the plan of salvation was being taught through the Old Testament ceremonial laws of Moses which included all the annual feasts of Lev 23 etc (see scripture proofs in posts Post 22030 with extra links; Post 22032 + Post 22033; and Post 22034) and were pointing to Jesus as our great Passover Lamb and sacrifice for our sins. (e.g. 1Cor 5:7-8) So these laws were given AFTER the fall of mankind to teach us the plan of salvation which at that time was the result of an UNFINISHED WORK because Jesus has not yet come or died for our sins. They were all Shadows and types pointing to their fulfilment in Jesus.

Putting it all together:

How can God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath commandment which is a memorial of the creation week (Ex 20:8-11) be a type or Shadow as you claim in Col 2:16-17 when God’s Word says it is already the result of the FINISHED WORK of the creation week given which was given BEFORE the fall of mankind?

I don’t think anything else needs to be said because this alone shows your interpretation of Col 2:16-17 is a false one. Anyone reading Leviticus chapter 23 can see clearly that it is the ceremonial annual new moon sabbaths connected to feasts days and burnt offerings and mean and drink offerings and Holy days that is being referred to in Col 2:16-17. Especially the fact the verse 14 in talking about ceremonial laws. You are mixed up because you do not know the difference between God’s Law and the laws of Moses. God’s Law (10 commandments) are the foundation of the Old and New covenants and the Judgement to come. They are God’s work and his Word tell us they are forever (Ecc 3:14)

There remains, then, a Sabbath rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own works, just as God did from His. - Hebrews 4:9-10. The Sabbath rest for the people of God is a permanent, unceasing rest from our fleshly works of human nature, just as God’s Sabbath rest is a permanent, unceasing rest from His physical works of creation. Christ's finished work is not unfinished. You are holding on to the shadow, but the substance belongs to Christ. You are still stuck under the law.

Lets talk about your Hebrews 4 again shall we?

HEB 4
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limited a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Key Scripture points

* Fear that the promise being left us any of us should fall short of entering God’s rest (v1)

* The Gospel was preached to the people in the Wilderness as well as us. The Word did not profit those in the wilderness because of their unbeliefit (v2)
* For we which have believed do enter into His Rest. The people in the wilderness that did not believe God did not enter into His Rest even though works were finished from the foundation of the world (v3)
* Speaking of the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath and the last day of the creation week (Gen 2:1-3) (v4)
* God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3), those that believe enter into God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest those that do not believe do not enter into God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest (v5-6)
* Harden not your heart in unbelief (v7-8)
* There is a rest for the people of God (v9)
* Those that enter into God’s rest cease from works as God did v10
* We should labour to enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) faith in God’s Word (rest through believing God) v11
* The Word of God is powerful. v12

Please go back and look at the Greek meaning of the word "rest" used in Heb 4:9 its meaning is resting through keeping of a Sabbath or Sabbath observance. (I have provided Greek links below)

“There remaineth therefore a [Sabbath] rest [SUP]4520[/SUP] to the people of God.” (NAS; Heb 4:9)
The Greek word literally means “Sabbath keeping” or “Sabbath observance.” (links below)
Strong's Concordance 4520
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Strong's Greek 4520
σαββατισμὸς — 1 Occ.
Hebrews 4:9N-NMS
GRK: ἄρα ἀπολείπεται σαββατισμὸς τῷ λαῷ
NAS: there remains a Sabbath rest for the people
KJV: therefore a rest to the people
INT: Then remains a sabbath rest to the people

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4520: σαββατισμός
σαββατισμός, σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath); 1. a keeping sabbath. 2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.)

So let’s pull Hebrews 4:1-12 all together?

The context is God’s rest from the week of creation on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day of the creation week (Heb 4:1-5). Those that did not enter into God’s rest (7th Day Sabbath) did not enter in because of their unbelief and disobedience (sins) to God’s Word. The Gospel was preached unto them but they did not believe it (Heb 4:2). God did not give them His true rest (Heb 4:5-8). This is the same warning for those that disobey Him and do not follow His Word. Only those that believe and obey God’s Word enter into his 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest (Heb 4:6, 9, 10-12). So you can see Jesus is not a Sabbath. The Sabbath is the 7th Day of the Week. Jesus is Lord of this Day because he is the creator of this day (Heb 4:4; Mark 2:28-29)

Chapter XV - The Jewish Sabbath Abolished. Colossians 2.
From "Seventh-day Adventism Renounced" by D.M. Canright, 1914 - "Seventh-day Adventism Renounced" by D. M. Canright, 1914

The above is just more of the same that has already been addressed in the previous posts to you with scripture referenced from Post 22030 with extra links; Post 22032 + Post 22033; and Post 22034.

God’s Law (10 commandments) had a similar (not same) role is it did in the Old Testament as it does in the New and that is to (1) point out what sin is and the punishment of sin which is death (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4). It was never a cure for sin. (2) The laws of Moses however were the prescriptive cure for sin with all the Levitical and ceremonial laws, burnt offerings, annual feast days foretelling the plan of salvation which were connected to Feast days with New Moon sabbaths, food and drink offerings and other Holy days. These where all types pointing to Jesus as described in earlier posts.

Every reference your writer above used as well as your previous posts is in context to (1) burnt offerings; (2) Sabbaths held at the New Moon feasts and at the appointed festivals and (3) food and drink offerings. This is the same reference and context that Col 2:16-17 is also referring. Every one of the scriptures used by the writer all have their context to the annual feast days descibed in Leviticus Chapter 23; Numbers chapters 28 and 29. As mentioned earlier these were all done away at the cross because they were Shadows of an unfinished word that was completed at the death of Jesus (Col 2:16-17).
On the other hand as mentioned earlier the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment only says..

Exo 20:8-11,
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day.

Now please notice some key points;

Where does it say in the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment of God’s Law that we need to do (1) burnt offerings (2) keep the Sabbaths at the New Moon feasts and at the appointed festivals and (3) offer food and drink offerings? It does not because it is God’s Law that points out sin. It is the same Law that we have today and is forever because it was made by God himself and represents the character of God and is the knowledge of good and evil. It shows us what sin is (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4; Rom 6:23).

Now notice the last part of the commandment in Ex 20:11 this is the reason the commandment was given. (v11) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day. This is a reference back to Gen 2:1-3 we touched on earlier. Highlighting that the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath is a memorial of the FINISHED work of creation and if it is a FINISHED work and a memorial of God’s creation that was given BEFORE the FALL of mankind before SIN had entered the world and before the plan of salvation was given to FALLEN man it cannot be a Shadow because it was a part of a finished work before God’s Laws and the plan of salvation was given!

Ok is that all you have got? God's Word is very clear...

Mat 15:3,
Jesus said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

Mat 15:7-9,
Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draws nigh unto me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

If we are following the teachings and traditions of man of the Word of God we are not following Jesus.

God bless

 

[LoveGodForever]

[FONT=&quot]According to his gospel, the cross is not enough to save.[/FONT] One must follow the ten commandments which includes keeping the Sabbath or be labeled a sinner and condemned to hell. That is not the new Covenant. Its just a repackage of the old. Jesus did more on the cross than enable us to keep the law.

Hi Ariel,

Now as God is your witness can you honestly say that I have said the things above you are accusing me of saying? Jesus says you shall know them by their fruits. For those interested in what I have said you can read it here in post 19989 linked or post 22438 linked and make up your own mind. Let the Word of God judge between us.

God bless

 

[LoveGodForever]

I think you should read it again. The man shared a big portion of his own walk and experience. Yes, he did it in his own words (refreshing to me personally), and he said "God" instead of the "Holy Spirit" (some don't really separate the three but they are all just God to them and that's okay). He DID talk about love and he DID talk about the new covenant being more than a keeping of the 10 commandments. In fact, he noted that he came to the point where he basically said, but then...it is impossible if it applies even to my inward thoughts!

I didn't see as you did that he was thinking God just repackaged the old covenant. I saw that he was rejoicing that God causes him to actually BE law abiding in his inner man and not just as an outside display.

Thanks Sister SBG, I really was not expecting to get that reaction to my personal testimony.

God Bless you

 

[followjesus]

Verse 22... "What! Do you not have houses in which to eat or drink?"

Paul is speaking of those who go hungry, not starvation.

God does indeed discipline those who belong to Him, and it can very severe. Sin is in the world, but it is with us still also (1 John 1:8) and there is sin that leads to death (1 John 5:16).

Ananias and Sapphira sinned to their deaths in Acts 5. No one took their lives but God alone.

son that leads to Death are the sins that are a death sentance in the Law of Moses, some sins were taught that the people must stone the sinner, other sins were forgiven through the atonement sacrifice. we have the ability to repent, they did not the first time am adulterer was caught they were commanded to drag them before the community the witnesses cast the first stones and then the community tossed rocks until they were dead. it was the same when your Kid dishonored you, the parent was to castthe first stone and then all the community cast stones until death.

there were also burning sentances , strangling sentances, and then there were excommunication where the sinner wasnt Killed but was excommunicated from Gods people and not allowed to return. the Law of Moses was Harsh. the purpose was to purge the sin from among the people, because God lived with them in a tent in thier camp.and He cannot abide where there is sin. that is all a foreshadow of the Gospel, we purge the sin from among ourself now by putting the flesh deeds to death through repentnance. sin that causes death now, is sin we refuse to repent of. alot of what the apostles are saying, is understood by Knowing what the Laws ordinances and commands like that were.

to Know sin we have to go to the Law. the new testament tells us " sexual immorality" is forbidden. but it doesnt explain whats sexually moral, and whats not, the law does that thats Our use for the Law now to learn of righteousness. the new testament is fully understood by the Old and the Old by the New. some of the sins of Death in the Mosaic Law and thier sentance

some crimes under the mosaic Law, commanded By God that the sinner is stoned to death.


Intercourse between a man and his mother, Intercourse between a man and his father's wife (not necessarily his mother)., Intercourse between a man and his daughter in law,Intercourse with another man's wife from the first stage of marriage, Intercourse between two men, Bestiality,Cursing the name of God in God's name.,Idol Worship,Giving one's progeny to Molech (child sacrifice),Necromantic Sorcery,Pythonic Sorcery,Attempting to convince another to worship idols,Instigating a community to worship idols,Witchcraft,Violating the Sabbath,Cursing one's own parent,A stubborn and rebellious son."


Some crimes commanded by God that the sinner be burned to death.


The daughter of a priest who completed the second stage of marriage commits adultery,Intercourse between a man and his daughter,Intercourse between a man and his daughter's daughter,Intercourse between a man and his son's daughter,Intercourse between a man and his wife's daughter (not necessarily his own daughter),Intercourse between a man and his wife's daughter's daughter,Intercourse between a man and his wife's son's daughter,Intercourse between a man and his mother in law,Intercourse between a man and his mother in law's mother,Intercourse between a man and his father in law's mother."


Beheading .


Unlawful premeditated murder,Being a member of a city that has gone astray.


strangulation...Committing adultery with another man's wife, when it doesn't fall under the above criteria,Wounding one's own parent,Kidnapping another Israelite,Prophesying falsely,Prophesying in the name of other deities."


all of these things and more were considered worthy of a death sentance, rather, the death sentance was commanded By God under this precept

deuteronomy 19:And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you. 21And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.


sin spreads Like cancer had sinners not been punished severely, the others would have followed suit because simply sin feels good to Humans, its what part of us wants and desires because of adam and eve its part of who we are thats what Jesus death and resurrection and sending the spirit deals with. its why paul constantly talks about putting to death the flesh and walking in the spirit. the flesh is in rebellion not our actual flesh but the nature of adam the first sinner in us. sin is all around a born again christian but it doesnt have any power to make them sin any longer Not if the spirit of God is in them. repentance replaces all of this in the Law we follow the right now and the wrong starves and dies. as the Lord brings to light sin we are commiting, we have to follow and rid ourselves of it through the Gospel unrepented sin Kills. its Only sin now if we Know its sin because thats what defiles our conscience. we dont ignore our sin, we stop feeding it by repenting and turning away and not living in it. it does truly die as we move forward it dies and no longer has a pull to us. we can walk upright before God because He has made us able.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Nothing is wrong with God's will.
What is wrong is when people use the Bible to condemn others For not obeying their false understanding of scripture such as requiring people to keep the seventh day SABBATH or be labeled unbelievers. It's legalistic and false. It's not the whole story because although Adam and Eve did die. Just as Jesus did die. They have been resurrected for God is God of the living and not the dead.

Ariel,

Do you know the difference between someone condemning you and God’s Word not agreeing with your interpretation of it. Who is condemning you? God’s Word judges us in the last days no one here does and certainly not me. If your having problems with the Word of God not agreeing with your interpretation of it then it is usually a warning sign that your interpretation is not correct because God's Word does not contradict itself. Only our interpretation of it does. I believe and love God’s Word how about you?

John 12:48-50
He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

God bless you

 

[RedeemedGift]

Read it again....they eat their own meals. Its not a potluck but a private picnic. The rich just eat and get drunk and party, while the poor starve to death.

Paul says this is a problem of sectarianism and how people are not respecting the communion feast to come together as one body with equal members but selfishly for their own freshly pleasures.

Notice the words "21For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal"

I see hunger, but I don't see starvation. I've never heard of such an interpretation of verse 30, it's far removed from its context.

Look at verses 23 - 30.. Paul's clearly talking of God's judgment on those who partake in the Lord's Supper in an unworthy manner.

27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.

James 2:3 ►
New International Version
If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, "Here's a good seat for you," but say to the poor man, "You stand there" or "Sit on the floor by my feet,"

I understand the passage but I am not understanding the point you're making. Are you saying that it's less about showing partiality, and more about poor believers getting sick and dying because of the greediness of those who have abundance?


I didn't realise how off-topic this is.

 

[willybob]

I think Jesus was encouraged and refreshed by Mary Magdalene on His journey to the cross, if not inspired by, and mentioned that what she did would be spoken of with the message of Salvation: Because she was forgiven much she loved much. We are poor in Spirit when we are self sufficient, some just don't know, Revelation 3:15

she also made her heart pure and departed from iniquity....

 

[willybob]

Lots of them. But none of them will send me away from my God.

But JIMBO, you should probably check your own before you look at mine my British mate.

News flash: God loves sinners so much that He will send them to hell for all eternity if they dont come clean with Him in repentance....

 

[stillness]

I see what you are saying. They were quite out of control. But they were corrected by Paul. I don't know that I would assume those believers lived the rest of their lives unfruitful and so come to the conclusion that some believers never live a fruitful life...in fact, it would be fearful to suppose that because any branch that doesn't bear fruit is cut off.

It is written, It's a fearful thing to fall in the hands of the Living God." That translates as admiration worship. knowing we will be where we desire to be. We are called to daily bear the cross, that end our selfish life. I have accepted that I can't change anyone. That I change by being content in relationship with God.

 

[FranC]

Wrong..God chastens...he doesn't cast his kids in hell for not doing one task anymore than you would toss your kids out of the house for not cleaning their room.

God teaches us and shows us the wisdom in following and obeying Him.

Good morning Ariel,
You see --- when the gospel is not properly understood we end up saying silly things.

You say:

he [God] doesn't cast his kids in hell for not doing one task anymore than you would toss your kids out of the house for not cleaning their room.

Reread that and try to understand what's wrong with what you've said...
I firmly believe that when persons figure things out for themselves they come to a better understanding of the subject at hand.
I used to teach kids by asking a lot of questions...

I'll only say this:

WHO EVER said what you're saying above???
No one here that I know of.

It's rather a silly statement based on not understanding God's ways and His salvation economy.

 

[FranC]

I don't count fruit of the Spirit as a work we do but a work of God done within our hearts and minds.

It's good not to count the Fruits of the Spirit as Works.

But just before Galatians 5:22, Paul is talking about what NOT to do. These are the deeds of the flesh:
The desire of the flesh is set AGAINST the desire of the spirit, the are in opposition to each other --- that you may NOT DO the things that you please.
Galatians 5:17

The deeds of the flesh are:
immorality
impurity
sensuality
idolatry
sorcery
enmites (hate)
strife
jealousy
anger (outbursts)
disputes
dissentions
factions
envying
drunkenness
carousing

Paul says that those who practice these things WILL NOT inherit the kingdome of God. And He's speaking to CHRISTIANS!
PAUL is talking about works --- which ones NOT to do.

Then he goes on to talk about what we SHOULD DO:

The FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT IS:
Love
joy
peace
patience
kindness
goodness
faithfulness
gentleness
self-control

Galatians 5:22-24


"If we LIVE by the spirit, let us also WALK by the spirit"
Galatians 5:25

Take a look at all the fruit... Those are all "works" that we do.
Walking by the spirit means that our INNER LIFE will be demonstrated OUTWARDLY.

Otherwise, what's the use of having the gift???

If you study the N.T. properly and with no pre-conceived notions, you find that works is all over the place.

In Galatians 3 Paul is speaking about how we are no longer slaves to the Law, but are children of God.
Paul, does, however, go on to say that we are to be as God would want us to be.
He exhorts the believers to act accordingly.
He NEVER says that FAITH ALONE is necessary.
Even Paul tells us that we must WALK as we believe.
THIS is works. DOING what God would want us to do.

It's an easy concept once you get over the terrible "works" word.

 

[FranC]

If the fruits of the Spirit were simply our own doing, wouldn't the glory belong to us and not to God? Hence they're called "fruits of the Spirit". Not arguing with you, just backing up your statement.

What is a fruit?
What is the fruit of your labor?

If you're refurbishing your old car, the new and better looking car is the fruit of your labor.

God gives us fruit when we become born again. They are the fruit of the work of the Holy Spirit.
It's up to US to put that fruit to work for the betterment of our world.

Jesus taught that we are to make the world a better place to live in.
Our fruit must show...
The inward fruit must become an outward manifestation...

 

[FranC]

If the fruits of the Spirit were simply our own doing, wouldn't the glory belong to us and not to God? Hence they're called "fruits of the Spirit". Not arguing with you, just backing up your statement.

P.S.

I see another hang up here.

We need to stop worrying about who gets the glory: us or God.

GOD GETS ALL THE GLORY when we obey HIM.

How are we getting the glory because we obey Him?
Did we hang on the cross???

When we obey God and do HIS works,
HE gets all the glory.

 

[FranC]

We do good works by abiding in Christ. Apart from Him we can do nothing. How do we abide in Him? We first call upon Him as Lord. And next we follow His commandment: Love one another as He Himself has loved us.

What about the law? Great question.

Paul answers it here:

Gal 5:1 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Hi Cee,

I used to teach kids.
First you have to teach them what sin is.
Some believe they've never sinned.

You do this by teaching them the 10 Commandments.
Kind of like putting them UNDER the Law.
It truly is a tutor!

THEN, when they understand about sin and serving God (the first 4)
and serving man (the next 6) you're ready to deliver the shock...

Mathew 22:36-40
Mathew 22:37, 39

Love God, love your neighbor AS YOURSELF.

If you don't love God, you cannot do anything to please Him. (getting saved)
You must love YOURSELF or you cannot love anyone else. (self-respect)
Love your neighbor. (love covers a multitude of sin)

I'd explain how with these TWO commandments of Jesus, ALL TEN WERE COVERED and I'd show how.

Some were stunned. I always loved this part !!

So the adult question here is:

Is loving our neighbor a work?

I think so. Does it cause us to do good for them? Yes. Is doing good a work? Yes. Jesus said we are to do good deeds.

So, I fail to see the problem with saying we are to do good works.
It's what we're saved for.
It's what Jesus COMMANDED.
We MUST do them---it's NOT A CHOICE.

I think you agree.

 

[Cee]

An interesting Scripture about works.

Romans 9:30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; 31but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. 32Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33as it is written,
“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense;
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness were made righteous.
Jews who pursued righteousness were not.

But why? Because they didn't pursue it by faith, but as if it were by works.

Let's not also fall in the same error to think our works can replace His work.

 

[FranC]

Not every believer lives a fruitful life, and those that do will have moments when the power of sin rules over them for a time occasionally, because they willfully give in to sin. If we believe that the presence of sin is done away with after we believe, then I can safely say that I have no knowledge of anyone who is actually saved, including myself.

I'm confused...

Are we talking about sin or works?

Who said anything remotely similar to what you're saying up above??