Not By Works
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Ariel82
Guest
My statement is that Faith is not an inward belief alone, faith is WHY WE OBEY GOD. because we beluieve Gods Word. if you believe Gods Word there is no way to get around His commandments its not possible to make our own salvation up, we have to do it Gods way. faith so therefore i act accordingly to that faith.
you are acting as if theres no Holy spirit to make us able to do those things gladly, with no power to actually change us into those who willingly embrace the good deeds God tells us plainly to do. as if nothing is rewuired but to believe the cross. the truth is faith is seen in the action and thats what saves that Kind of Faith that Hears, and because it believes it does the action. Like all the examples we have of faith in the Bible. you will never find an axample of a person arguing against doing what God has commanded we are to do. no one who says i believe and then takes the action to be an offense or not necassary.
anyways ariel its okay if we disagree I hope the remainder of your day is blessed and you have a peaceful HeartGod Loves you, that i know is agreeable
There is a difference between following God and following His written law.
Do you understand the difference?
I am stating heart MOTIVE is more important than outward actions...
Jesus said the Pharisees were white washed tombs.,,,looked good on the outside but inside were white washed tombs.
In life we are always doing something. How the world judge works as "good" and "bad" isn't how God judges it.
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Sully
Guest
Yup God looks at the inner motive and heart.
seem to me inner motive and heart correlation with real action
matt 25
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
But the whole Christian life is God at work in us.....and then we obey.
I, you, all who love the Lord have the fruit of the Spirit already within them. God says love the brethren. God has done His part. He has given me a love for others that is supernatural. Now my part is to obey Him and love when others become unlovely.
When God says to put off the old man. He has already rendered sin powerless in me. Now my part is to obey Him and walk in the Spirit instead of the old man.
God transforms our mind so that we can obey. We are a new creation. We grow in our new way of life. But that's the point - we grow or the seed isn't planted in good soil. If the work isn't there as an outward fruit of repentance, maybe we're a church goer and not a born again believer.
Not every believer lives a fruitful life, and those that do will have moments when the power of sin rules over them for a time occasionally, because they willfully give in to sin. If we believe that the presence of sin is done away with after we believe, then I can safely say that I have no knowledge of anyone who is actually saved, including myself.
Hi Francine,
About loosing salvation, Matthew 24:48, reference is in the time of trouble prophesied for the end.
There are others, also having to do with the sin that can't be forgiven. The Holy Spirit will never leave us and for that reason many Christians think they will never reject Him. It's good to question these things. 6 years ago the Lord told me: It would be better for you not to have been born than to return to your vomit. A reference of this is 2 Peter 2:22, all the 2's like divided between 2 opinions. We are not saved by our understanding and need to get that straight, not to slander over differences of understanding; not addressing you on this, have not read of you doing this, but of others slandering you, having taken offence at your comments, this is for their sake. I had these arguments years ago and have not changed my view, also the Lord warned me o the danger of taking thins in my hands again. Some are confident they will not lose salvation for good reasons, they come to the Lord for help in trouble and in the end we are kept by the power of God. I cheer you on don't take offence.
Can you give an example of how not every believer lives a fruitful life? And any verses you can give would be a help to me to understand.
1Corinthians 3:10 the wood hay and straw are having our affections in this life on things that will pass away, such as loving a woman more than God. I had a dream was nailing wood together with my affection an a woman at the time and in the dream said to myself, I'm building with wood, that means it's going to burn. I was a carpenter at the time, still am, still face codependency issues.
Lots of them. But none of them will send me away from my God.
But JIMBO, you should probably check your own before you look at mine my British mate.
Joh 6:40 This is my Father's will: That everyone who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him to life on the last day."
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this SEAL, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
I don't believe the bible teaches that some believers don't live a fruitful life. In fact it teaches just the opposite. And that's what most in this thread believe so I'm not saying anything that others haven't already said.
It's actually been stressed by some that God does all the work in us which I agree, just not in the way it's presented.
God has transformed us and made us a new creation at birth. I'm a brand new creation and God is at work in me. I can only go forward, there's no going backward. If I'm a new creation in Christ and God is at work in me to will and to do His good pleasure, if the Christians has nothing to show as fruit of repentance, I can only conclude that the Spirit does not dwell in them.
If God is at work and there's no evidence of this in the believer, either God is impotent or the person isn't born again. I don't see a third option.
There will be fruit. There has to be or God is not in that person.
Look at 1 Corinthians. There was infighting and factions, solicitations with prostitutes, lawsuits against one another and even incest. All of the behaviour was the very definition of not just fruitlessness in the Spirit, but rife with the works of the flesh instead. Their behaviour didn't at all reflect the presence of the Holy Spirit, yet Paul in verse 2 of the first chapter says of them:
"To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours."
They were believers in disobedience. That's not to say they didn't suffer any ills from their sin, as Paul writes concerning the consequences of their sins in 1 Corinthians 11:30:
"For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep".
We do not save ourselves, lest we boast. We become children of the living God through faith in Christ's work, and not our own work. However, like children who disobey their father, we will be disciplined if we sin, even to death (sleep). There are those who might say that believing in true grace and not works will bring complacency to a believer's life, but 1 Corinthians clearly teaches the opposite.
The only things that will result from your position are a boastful arrogance in our own works, or a constant fear that one isn't good enough to enter Heaven. None of these are good. I used to belong to the latter for the most part, until I understood what grace truly was. It's not of ourselves, it's a gift. If we couldn't earn our salvation, we can't on that very basis maintain it either.
Believers can and do backslide. The Hebrews did, the Corinthians did, the Galatians did.
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Ariel82
Guest
1 Corinthians 11
20When you come together, it is not the Lord’s supper that you eat. 21For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal. One goes hungry, another gets drunk
*****
People get sick and die because some folks allow others to starve....not because God is punishing people for their sins by making them sick.
Sickness and suffering is due to the sinful nature of the world....NOT because God is punishing people.
Why did Jesus suffer?
20When you come together, it is not the Lord’s supper that you eat. 21For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal. One goes hungry, another gets drunk
*****
People get sick and die because some folks allow others to starve....not because God is punishing people for their sins by making them sick.
Sickness and suffering is due to the sinful nature of the world....NOT because God is punishing people.
Why did Jesus suffer?
I see what you are saying. They were quite out of control. But they were corrected by Paul. I don't know that I would assume those believers lived the rest of their lives unfruitful and so come to the conclusion that some believers never live a fruitful life...in fact, it would be fearful to suppose that because any branch that doesn't bear fruit is cut off.