Not By Works

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Magenta said:
I see people saying that it is not the works that grant salvation...
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Yes, several of us. But it seems that we can only be perceived by some as saying works earn us salvation, oblivious to the Biblical fact that works have to accompany salvation or you do not have the saving faith you think you have. There are those who will hear and understand and they will be our reward in the kingdom to come, therefore...

"...be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord."
1 Corinthians 15:58 NASB

"7 ...be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains. 8You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near."
James 5:7-8 NASB
 
PHart said:
It's simply amazing to me that you and others can only hear what I say as an argument that works make us righteous before God. But I'm not here to give you ears to hear. I'm here for the 20 guests presently on line who do have ears to hear and will take to heart this matter of the necessity to have a faith that works, not in order to earn them salvation, but as the necessary outcome of having the faith that saves in you.

They will seek to have the faith that saves (the faith that works--Galatians 5:6) and they will be saved and they will be my reward for my labor in the building and field of God in the kingdom to come. I will rejoice over them just as they will rejoice over me. Your resistance to what I'm saying is simply the spring board to advance that agenda. The more people resist, the more chances I get to proclaim the truth to those who will believe it and be saved and be my reward in the kingdom. So don't take it personally. I'm pushing another agenda here.
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your aggrandizing now and just being arrogant....because people see through you now and are coming against you as a lawyer...

Key words..."my work"...."I will"...



The law says look at what I do....because I am commanded to do it....and if I don't...I wont make it...


true relationship says....look at what HE did and because of what HE did.....I will share with others...
 
Meggido said:
your aggrandizing now and just being arrogant....because people see through you now and are coming against you as a lawyer...
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No, I'm just making it clear I'm not here for the naysayers. I'm here for those who are open to the truth. That means you should not take what I say personally. I'm only using what you say as a spring board to present the truth to the 20 or so guests reading this thread.
 
PHart said:
Yes, several of us. But it seems that we can only be perceived by some as saying works earn us salvation, oblivious to the Biblical fact that works have to accompany salvation or you do not have the saving faith you think you have. There are those who will hear and understand and they will be our reward in the kingdom to come, therefore...

"...be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord."
1 Corinthians 15:58 NASB

"7 ...be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains. 8You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near."
James 5:7-8 NASB
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you are claiming works based salvation, you are just to arrogant, young and foolish to see it.

you are stating SALVATION works this ways:

JESUS+ACCOMPANYING WORKS=TRUE SAVING FAITH =REWARDS & SALVATION

The Bible teaches it this way:

JESUS+NOTHING WE DO=SALVATION
 
Meggido said:
If this was supposed to be humor it is lost on me and discerned as intentional and arrogant sowing of discord....
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It is strictly humor. Laugh along. I'm not here to bash you. I'm not even here to convince you. I'm here for the ones who are not logging in but are reading this thread with honest interest.
 
Ariel82 said:
I will take a pie, please.

Even will take one of Dcon cakes....lol, jk.
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well, that's why i made pie. lol
after all that has gone on in the thread, i thought a break might be welcome.

banana cream or blueberry peach? :)
 
PHart said:
No, I'm just making it clear I'm not here for the naysayers. I'm here for those who are open to the truth. That means you should not take what I say personally. I'm only using what you say as a spring board to present the truth to the 20 or so guests reading this thread.
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you do understand that by admitting to this, you are now in violation of the terms of service of this chat board and can and probably should be reported for making the chat board your private perosnal pulpit?
 
Meggido said:
you do understand that by admitting to this, you are now in violation of the terms of service of this chat board and can and probably should be reported for making the chat board your private perosnal pulpit?
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Go ahead and report me, then. If I can't seek to give people the truth so they can be saved on the Day of Judgment I will go to a forum where I can do that.

You're blowing this thing up bigger than it really is.
 
UnderGrace said:

Take note...


"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (Jn. 3:6)
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. (Jn. 1:17)


The spirit does not need the law the flesh needs the law.
Our flesh cannot be redeemed. We live by the Spirit.
The believer is now to live in the liberty and power of God's Grace by the Spirit, not the rule of law.




"Not only are we saved by faith rather than by law but law is not to be the rule of life for the believer.


We are not to live by law at all. ...Grace supplies the indwelling and filling of the Spirit to enable us to live on a higher plan than law demanded.


This all is our portion when we trust Christ as Savior. It is in Christ that we receive everything--salvation and sanctification. ...Let's stop trying

some legal system or rote of rules. We have a liberty in Christ."


~J. Vernon McGee, Thru the Bible With J. Vernon McGee, Vol. 5, Galatians 5:1
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Amen.....concerning the law...

a. The law is for the lawless
b. The law is a school master to bring one to Christ
c. Christ is the end of the law for those that believe
d. The condemnation of the law is nailed to the cross
e. The hand writing of ordinances against us (the law) is nailed to the cross
f. The bible is clear...NO man can keep the law 100% and to break the east of it makes one guilty of the whole
g. Paul concluded that a man was justified by faith without the deeds of the law (works)
h. By the LAW no man shall be justified in his sight...because NO man can keep the law (point f)
 
Meggido said:
you are claiming works based salvation, you are just to arrogant, young and foolish to see it.

you are stating SALVATION works this ways:

JESUS+ACCOMPANYING WORKS=TRUE SAVING FAITH =REWARDS & SALVATION

The Bible teaches it this way:

JESUS+NOTHING WE DO=SALVATION
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You're right if what you mean by salvation is having the door to life opened for us. But to be able to walk through that door requires strong faith to endure through trials and tribulations.


"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." Matt 7:13,14
 
It appears everyone is saying the same thing, but let's make sure.

Here's how I see it:

1. Christ alone saves.
2. We die to the law.
3. We are reborn in Christ.
4. We are a new creation in Christ.
5. This new creation does the will of God naturally.
6. Sometimes the flesh tries to intervene.
7. We get to choose to follow flesh or Spirit, renewing of the mind.
8. As we follow Spirit we see fruit, James calls them works.
9. We see and reveal fruit/works, but only faith saves.
10. Apart from Christ we can do NOTHING, so we abide in the Vine and HIS fruit is grown through us.

We can see what a person truly believes by their gospel message.

If we say, Christ alone saves, this is what we believe.

If we say, Christ alone saves, but you better have works, we don't truly believe in the power of Christ to save and produce works. Remember the good works were prepared BEFORE us. He knows what He's doing, we don't need to add on to the gospel message, but we do need discipleship after salvation. He commands us of this.

Please note: Before Christ, we need Christ. After Christ, we need to grow up in Christ. This "growing" up process is called discipleship, maturity, and growing in the knowledge of the Lord several times in Scripture. It is this process that takes us from "fleshly/carnal minded" babes in Christ into mature believers lead by the Spirit.
 
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PHart said:
Absolutely correct.

But what I'm saying is:

JESUS + DOING NOTHING = YOU AIN'T GOT THE JESUS YOU THINK YOU DO
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this is not part salvation, this is then post conversion....

Works come after salvation bro....not along side....

when we use terms like doing works that are accompanying salvation, you are saying, whether or not you are conscious of it, that works are part of salvation.

Salvation is not earned by anything we do.....

Not a single poster believes that works are not part of their walk....part of the walk, not obtaining the walk....
 
givegoodness said:
You're right if what you mean by salvation is having the door to life opened for us. But to be able to walk through that door requires strong faith to endure through trials and tribulations.


"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." Matt 7:13,14
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oh goodness...you guys are talking after salvation, not obtaining it.....
 
Meggido said:
...you are just to arrogant, young and foolish to see it.
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Oh, and by the way, I'm actually older than you (and yes, my dad can beat up your dad, lol).
Foolish? Usually.
Arrogant? I don't know.....I'm too self absorbed to know that.


But anyway, that is my spiritual age showing under my avatar. And, yes, you can report that to the mod if you want. I actually tried to get the board to change my account right after I signed up but I did not hear a peep out of them so I just went with it and started posting.

(People should be aware that these forums exist to sell our 'unidentifiable' personal information. That's why I used my spiritual age. Yes, you may now accuse me of being a liar, lol.)

Come on, guy, loosen up, for corns sake! Let's have some fun.
 
PHart said:
Oh, and by the way, I'm actually older than you (and yes, my dad can beat up your dad, lol).
Foolish? Usually.
Arrogant? I don't know.....I'm too self absorbed to know that.


But anyway, that is my spiritual age showing under my avatar. And, yes, you can report that to the mod if you want. I actually tried to get the board to change my account right after I signed up but I did not hear a peep out of them so I just went with it and started posting.

(People should be aware that these forums exist to sell our 'unidentifiable' personal information. That's why I used my spiritual age. Yes, you may now accuse me of being a liar, lol.)

Come on, guy, loosen up, for corns sake! Let's have some fun.
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Spiritual age huh?....hmmmm.....

troll....
 
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