Not By Works

[royalscot]

Thats what hat it comes down too

1. Did God make a mistake and give peopl salvation in error
2. Did the person really have true saving faith t begin with?
3. Will god d what he promised and finish the work he began, or not?

the new covenant hold, all idots ,under law. by asking them , when did you conquer death.
repent you sinner, now tell the others on this forum , what law are you repenting from, when were you called to explain, your own down fall. with no root, you do the maths .so why are your still a prisoner to law. and since i am not your teacher, take it up with history of acts 2 v the truth you fail to see.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

PHart it seems to me you are saying that: Someone was gifted a car (got saved) and now he has to maintain the car and keep it in good condition (works), or the gift giver will come back and take away the car. (lose salvation)

And that takes a lot of work.

 

[Desertsrose]

Hi Grace,

We have also asked...HOW MANY WORKS are necessary...1, 10. 50 HOW MANY?

They will never answer that question because it will expose the works for salvation belief system for what it really is when you boil it all down and what they are really promoting under the disguise of "not believing" anymore.

I will answer and I don't believe in works for salvation. I believe that works is a part of our faith as is mentioned by James.

Peter affirms this as well.
1 Peter 1:1,2
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

Whoever in this thread claims to be chosen by God's foreknowledge, we are chosen to obey Jesus Christ. ​So after we've been born again, we begin to live a life of obedience.

So it's a lifetime of works and only God knows how many that might be. It's your life's work.

I don't understand the big deal in all this going back in forth. The one side agrees that we're not saved by works. It's all God grace through faith. So there's agreement that it's a free gift of God, not of works so that no one can boast.

The other side says that we must work. Work proves genuine faith. So there's agreement what works proves that a person's faith is genuine.

At least from what I've read, I've come to that conclusion. I have not read everyone's posts however. There are so many and I've only got so much time.

I would like to ask you and the others a question.

Who on this thread has said that a person is saved by their works and not by God's grace through faith? And please quote them.

SaveSave​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We have also asked...HOW MANY WORKS are necessary...1, 10. 50 HOW MANY?




They will never answer that question because it will expose the works for salvation belief system for what it really is when you boil it all down and what they are really promoting under the disguise of "not believing" anymore.

well James said if we have zero works, our faith is dead, so anything above zero would mean our faith is proven.

Although I would say a true child will have much more than this, but in reality 1 is enough according to james

 

[UnderGrace]

I guess that did not come out right, perhaps better phrased like this ...if I never did a good deed I would still be saved because my good deeds do not save me.

We know that because of the work of the God's grace we are changed and if we abide in that grace, good works happen, but they do not save us or unsave us.

Our salvation/eternal life is a position that is declared by God.

Many believers do fail miserably, I accept that, but I trust that God will work in their lives one way or another.

Never? You sure?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Law keeping Jews were OBEDIENT TO THE LAW.


I do wish you knew the correct terms.

yet they still fell short of the glory of God, and would be sent t hell apart from their messiah

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It insults God that Christians work for Him?

The hyper faith movement is getting worse and worse.

What else insults God?
When we confess our sins?
When we do our good works?
When we pray?
When we encourage each other?
When we Honor God's Holy day?
etc
etc

Grace people do not teach those are bad, their you go slandering people again, I will add this to the list of slander being spewed by people against grace

 

[royalscot]

Here's what he said:


Originally Posted by jodyb View Post

You say "works are a required part of salvation". I would agree that works are part of a Christian life, but not a required part of salvation. To me, that insults the sacrifice our Savior made for us.

He said that "WORKS ARE NOT A REQUIRED PART OF SALVATION.
That insults the sacrifice made for us."

So, works are not a part of salvation.
We need not do any works to keep our salvation.
It insults the sacrifice made for us.

What did I not understand??

I say it insults God if we DO NOT do our part of good works for Him as Jesus commanded.

when did you work, to have the power to inhale air.

give a bible verse if you respond, your only as good as your teacher not better.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am sorry Fran, you are deliberately missing the point that jodyb made.
You are not being honest!

You will see that a lot in here sadly.

 

[dcontroversal]

well James said if we have zero works, our faith is dead, so anything above zero would mean our faith is proven.

Although I would say a true child will have much more than this, but in reality 1 is enough according to james

AND think about this.....

This is the WORK of the Father...to believe on him whom he hath sent.......!

 

[Grace777x70]

Hi Grace,


I will answer and I don't believe in works for salvation. I believe that works is a part of our faith as is mentioned by James.

Peter affirms this as well.
1 Peter 1:1,2
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

Whoever in this thread claims to be chosen by God's foreknowledge, we are chosen to obey Jesus Christ. ​So after we've been born again, we begin to live a life of obedience.

So it's a lifetime of works and only God knows how many that might be. It's your life's work.

I don't understand the big deal in all this going back in forth. The one side agrees that we're not saved by works. It's all God grace through faith. So there's agreement that it's a free gift of God, not of works so that no one can boast.

The other side says that we must work. Work proves genuine faith. So there's agreement what works proves that a person's faith is genuine.

At least from what I've read, I've come to that conclusion. I have not read everyone's posts however. There are so many and I've only got so much time.

I would like to ask you and the others a question.

Who on this thread has said that a person is saved by their works and not by God's grace through faith? And please quote them.

SaveSave​

I don't have the time nor the desire to go looking back for posts. People can believe that Donald Duck and Daffy Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation if they want. I just proclaim the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ without it being watered down by works based belief systems which deny Christ Himself and His work by their "adding unto the gospel".

Some have said that we need to have works in order to keep our salvation. That is a works-based belief system that denies Christ no matter how we try to pretty it up.

Some of us say that as we behold Christ and rely on His finished work for us - this releases His life in and through us for good works to be done. Not us just doing things for salvation. The good works do not keep us saved. it's religious nonsense and a direct violation of the gospel.

I will post after this what I have said over 30x times now about works so that there can be no more distortion of what is being said. ( I do realize that this is highly unlikely to happen...lol )

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here's what he said:


Originally Posted by jodyb View Post

You say "works are a required part of salvation". I would agree that works are part of a Christian life, but not a required part of salvation. To me, that insults the sacrifice our Savior made for us.

He said that "WORKS ARE NOT A REQUIRED PART OF SALVATION.
That insults the sacrifice made for us."

So, works are not a part of salvation.
We need not do any works to keep our salvation.
It insults the sacrifice made for us.

What did I not understand??

I say it insults God if we DO NOT do our part of good works for Him as Jesus commanded.

no, saying we MUST work to save ourself insults the sacrifice f our savior, it states it was not enough,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I guess that did not come out right, perhaps better phrased like this ...if I never did a good deed I would still be saved because my good deeds do not save me.

We know that because of the work of the God's grace we are changed and if we abide in that grace, good works happen, but they do not save us or unsave us.

Our salvation/eternal life is a position that is declared by God.

Many believers do fail miserably, I accept that, but I trust that God will work in their lives one way or another.

Ok I agree in part,

a true believer will never not do works though,

 

[dcontroversal]

no, saying we MUST work to save ourself insults the sacrifice f our savior, it states it was not enough,

This view runs rampant.....and is found in such sayings such as....the cross is not enough or the imputed righteousness of Christ is a neat little trick that does not work and to be honest....to say one MUST work to keep it or maintain it states clearly that the sacrifice and faith of Christ is not enough.....!

 

[FranC]

yet they still fell short of the glory of God, and would be sent t hell apart from their messiah

Talking about hell

AGAIN

And YOU, of course, know everyone who is going there.

We should use correct terms. Like these:

OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW
OBEDIENCE OF FAITH

Big difference.
But the Law is obeyed in both.
Too bad we can't talk about this.
All we want to do is show how the other person is wrong.

 

[Grace777x70]

We "get to do good works" because His life is in us now - but they are not for salvation nor for maintaining being saved. That's an anti-Christ belief system that is simply a works-based self-righteousness belief system that denies the very work of Christ.

An example of "good works" are when we encourage people to actually believe what Jesus has said and what He has already done. It is a good work to encourage Christians to believe that He alone has obtained eternal redemption for us. Heb. 9:12

Right believing in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection and that we too have died with Him and rose to newness of life - will bring right thinking ( repentance ) which will manifest in His life being seen in our lives outwardly as His fruit is borne on us the branches.

This is what produces real godliness based on Christ alone by grace through faith.

Without Him - we can do nothing.

It is a "good work" to encourage people to trust that He who has begun a good work in you will perfect it. (Phil. 1:6)

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians to believe that we are new creations in Christ ( 2 Cor. 5:17 )

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians that Christ alone is our wisdom, our righteousness and our sanctification and our redemption. ( 1 Cor. 1:30 )

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians to believe that we are saved by grace through faith alone in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection and no amount of good works can save us nor "keep us saved". Christ alone is the Savior of the world - especially of believers. ( Eph. 2:8-19 & 1 Tim. 4:10 )

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians that we will walk in the good works that God has already prepared for us to walk in as His life becomes manifested in and through us to reveal the love and grace of our loving Father and our Lord has for others. ( Eph. 2:10 & Phil. 2:13 )

It is a "good work" for us to encourage Christians that we are safe in the hands of the Lord and we who truly believe have been sealed by the Holy Spirit and He will be in us forever - just like Jesus said. ( Eph. 1:13, 4:20 & John 14:16 )

It is also a "good work" to remind Christians that there is a warning for not relying on the life of Christ in us for life and living while on this earth.

All the works of the flesh will bring destruction in this life of some sort - whether living the homosexual lifestyle or the exhibiting of malice, outbursts of anger, deceitfulness or the slandering of others in the body of Christ.

Fail to rely on the grace of God that is only in Christ's finished work and trying to do things in our own flesh will not get us to experience the life of Christ that is in our inner man of the heart where Christ dwells and where we are in the kingdom of God.

The warning scriptures are needed and to be heeded - once the proper foundation of Christ and His finished work are firmly established in the hearts and minds of us Christians. From there - then the warning scriptures will have their proper place.

But the firm foundation is Christ Himself and you can no more lose the redemption that is in Christ then Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.

We are beloved children of our loving Father and He will not throw His beloved children into hell and the lake of fire because they don't do enough "good works".

Where there is "security" - there are the nutrients for "maturity". Let's believe what Christ has said and what He has already done for us and grow in the grace and knowledge of Him.

 

[UnderGrace]

The problem is that there needs to be a division between the faith that saves us, from, the faith that results from salvation which is ongoing in our lives.

The first gives us the position of saved, which God declares, and the second bears witness and is a practical faith that when lived out, that benefits ourselves and others.

Hi Grace,


I will answer and I don't believe in works for salvation. I believe that works is a part of our faith as is mentioned by James.

Peter affirms this as well.
1 Peter 1:1,2
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

Whoever in this thread claims to be chosen by God's foreknowledge, we are chosen to obey Jesus Christ. ​So after we've been born again, we begin to live a life of obedience.

So it's a lifetime of works and only God knows how many that might be. It's your life's work.

I don't understand the big deal in all this going back in forth. The one side agrees that we're not saved by works. It's all God grace through faith. So there's agreement that it's a free gift of God, not of works so that no one can boast.

The other side says that we must work. Work proves genuine faith. So there's agreement what works proves that a person's faith is genuine.

At least from what I've read, I've come to that conclusion. I have not read everyone's posts however. There are so many and I've only got so much time.

I would like to ask you and the others a question.

Who on this thread has said that a person is saved by their works and not by God's grace through faith? And please quote them.

SaveSave​

 

[Sully]

Grace777x70

I also ponder about this, in works salvation how many good works is enough? How much turning from sin is enough?
Anybody got the numbers? Would be pretty awkward if nobody has any specifics considering we are dealing with eternal salvation here.

That is the $7 dollar question no one can answer. No one because it's contrary to faith alone in Christ alone.

 

[Desertsrose]

Read James account "in context" which is what we are talking about. No one is saying that they only did one thing in their life. James is talking about them doing "one thing" to exhibit their faith. Why is that so hard for people to understand?

This is a one time event that James used to "describe Abraham's faith in action".

James 2:21-22 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

[SUP]22 [/SUP] You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

Here is the very same thing - James showing the one time act of faith that Rahab did.

James 2:25 (NASB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?

These were one time events in their life that showed they had faith no matter how people try to make into something else. It's plain as day but people are free to believe whatever they want.

It's the same for us when we hear the gospel message of Christ and the forgiveness of sins. We have a corresponding action to the message and we believe with our heart and confess that Jesus is Lord.

Abraham believed the word of God and was declared righteous 15 years before he put his son on the altar.

The point I'm making is that we use the whole counsel of God and not just James.

It's noted in Hebrews that by faith, Abraham obeyed right away when God called him from his home to go to a place he didn't even know which would later be the Jews inheritance. That was Abraham's faith proved by his obedience (works). So from the very beginning we see him faithfully obeying his God and throughout his life he lived a life of obedience.

So it wasn't 15 years later that Abraham was declared righteous. It was from the very start ....... when God said to Abraham to leave his father and all his relatives and go.

 

[FranC]

no, saying we MUST work to save ourself insults the sacrifice f our savior, it states it was not enough,

Same difference.

JESUS Himself said we are to do many good works.
You are saying that if we do them, we're insulting Jesus because it means His sacrifice wasn't sufficient.

See, EG, I understand, I don't agree.

So basically, Jesus said to do good works but if I do them I insult Him.

Read that over a few times...