Not By Works
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Originally Posted by willybob
This is because he believes in positional salvation, rather than manifest reality, which is the bed rock of Joseph Prince's doctrine...
Imagine actually "believing that Jesus is the Savior?" Imagine actually believing in Christ and what He has done for us? Imagine treating Jesus as if He is not a liar?"
What will those heretics that trust in Christ Himself and His work on the cross and resurrection come up with next...
Make no mistake about it - there is an all-out war on the gospel of the grace of God and satan has his ministers of righteousness to try to distort the true gospel and get us to rely on our own self-efforts of self-righteousness "in order" to try to keep ourselves saved.
Jesus is the One and only Savior. We can trust Him.
Brethren - we are not redeemed until our next failure. The blood of the Lord Jesus Christ speaks of better things.
We have eternal redemption because of what Christ has already done and the fact that we are one spirit with Him. In Him we have eternal redemption through His blood - not by what we do or don't do.
Hebrews 9:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
Colossians 1:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
We have = present tense - present tense is always present tense. When tomorrow comes - it will be present tense then too.
Does this make us want to go out and sin all we want? No, a thousand times No! Of course not - why?
Because "knowing this truth" releases the grace of God in our lives to operate to produce His life in and through us. Jesus said "You shall know the truth and that truth shall make you free."
It's time to "repent and believe the gospel" like Jesus said in Mark 1:15 After all it is not called the "good news" for no reason.
We have a great and wondrous salvation but it is all in Christ and what He has already done. We receive this all by grace through faith. As we have received Christ - so we walk in Him in like manner.
Oh I fully agree and the one you referenced is one of the biggest enemies of the truth for sure.....all who devalue salvation by faith into the sacrifice and blood of Christ in favor of a sinless perfectionist, law abiding, works vanilla blend café gospel are indeed enemies of the cross! <-----Pharisees
Well, I hear what you are saying. And I think there is merit in it, but how is that "repentance" going to come about? By struggling hard and "worrying" about sin?
Or will you turning away from, or repenting, going to happen by renewing your mind to who you are in Christ, and focusing on Him and what He has done for and to you, with unspeakable joy, love and gratitude?
Perfect love casts out all fear. HE loves us perfectly.
We love you Jesus!
Not sure the message you are talking about here.
"Don't worry about sin" - if one is thinking sexual addiction, or fantasing about revenge etc.
it is not the sin which is the driver of the behaviour but insecurity, rejection and lack of self
worth. Sinful behaviour can be symtom of other issues, deeper needs and unresolved emotional
dilemmas that have caused the resulting behaviour.
So it gets complicated. And seeing Christ and His love through the cross does bring healing, as
well as desiring to obey, to love, to walk rightly.
So fellowship, confession, friendship and acceptance helps. But struggling alone, not working
things through, and just expecting to stay as one is and be able to resist the emotional
consequences is impossible.
Please point to one scripture that says "Don't worry about sin". So I doubt this was the Lord,
rather this was you recognising you needed to focus elsewhere to find some resolution.
A
Ariel82
Guest
I always think of sin as a tumor or cancer. Its part of our flesh that sucks up nutrients and our time and energy but doesn't help us live our lives. It steals from healthy good cells to become this big waste.
I believe we have to ask God how to cut out the dead tumors and allow His truth to flow like Chemo to kill the diseased cells. His love and grace are life giving waters to heal our bruised and hurting souls.
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I know.....imagine the fallacy of that view.......The biggest things that to me slap the face of God......
a. The sacrifice, blood and work of Christ is not sufficient to save one by faith which is what the bible teaches
b. That eternal and everlasting mean temporary which the bible DOES NOT TEACH
c. That salvation can be lost by sin and must be maintained by the very MEN who are sinful
d. That NONE who teach they can lose salvation HAVE LOST salvation but believers in grace dai faith eternal salvation are lost.
Their poison and deceit is sickening and their hypocrisy knows no bounds....and IF salvation can be lost...ALL are doomed
The problem with "don't worry about sin", is its direct relationship with "don't worry about repentance".
That crosses the line.
Here is where some people love to "twist" what is being said about repentance to make it "appear" to be what it not being said.
I know they will continue to deceitfully do this until the Lord reveals the truth of Christ to them in this area but for the viewers of the thread - we can post this again.
Repentance comes with the hearing of Christ and what He has already done. We should be living in a constant mode of repenting ( changing our minds about what we believe ) whenever we hear a new truth about the beauty of our Lord.
Romans 10:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
The word "repentance" - metanoia as been shown by others simply in the original greek means " to change the mind - ".
To us it means to change our mind to stop relying on ourselves and our thinking and turn to God. Stop living our own life with our own thinking and self-righteousness and come to Christ and let His life live through and in you. Receive all that Jesus did for us in His finished work.
We should be repenting ( changing how we think towards something ) constantly as we see the Lord's true nature, love and grace revealed to and in us.
There will always be "fruits" of having a changed mind ( having already repented ) to believe what God has said but the "fruit" is not the repentance within itself. True repentance is the "root" before the "fruit" comes.
The fruit will manifest itself in the form of having a changed heart because we are a new creation in Christ.
This will also show in behavior as the life of Christ transforms our outward life to reflect what has already happened in our inner man - that new creation in Christ.
A
Ariel82
Guest
I think the message is "don't worry about your past sins for I have forgiven you. Focus on following me fully and you will be kept safe from comitting future sins. Even if you look away and become distracted and fall into a pit, I can pick you up and wash you clean again. Just keep your eyes fixed on me and I will lead you to still waters and green pastures that you might find rest."
At least that is the message God gives me.
From the love, joy and peace God gives us are we empowered to help and heal others with our words and actions for the glory of God.
At least that is the message God gives me.
From the love, joy and peace God gives us are we empowered to help and heal others with our words and actions for the glory of God.
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so, I say that I confess sin, ask for forgiveness, ask the Lord to help me overcome the sin, and your response was to attack that . o.k. got it.
but, I guess these are foreign concepts for one who thinks they " have overcome their sins". ( yeah, right )
Hebrews 8:12
For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Psalm 103
12 [FONT="]As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
John 19
[/FONT]30 [FONT="]So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, [/FONT][FONT="]“It is finished!”[/FONT][FONT="] And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.
[/FONT]The Lord said these and other verses to me. When I was praying to Him years ago, feeling despondent, He said, "All of your sins have been paid for, forget about them", and a peace that I hadn't felt in years came over me.
It was THEN that sins that I had struggled with no longer had a hold on me.
This idea of letting go, and simply believing and trusting in the Lord, that HE is in control, and you don't have to struggle any longer, is counter-intuitive to human beings. ANOTHER reason I know it's true.
PS. 34:18.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saves such as be of a contrite spirit.
51:17.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, Thou will not despise.
1JOHN 1:6-7.
If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
But if we walk in The Light, as He is in The Light, we have fellowship one with another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.
MATT. 12:50.
For whosoever shall do the Will of My Father which is in heaven, the same is
My brother, and sister, and mother.
1JOHN 2:6.
He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saves such as be of a contrite spirit.
51:17.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, Thou will not despise.
1JOHN 1:6-7.
If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
But if we walk in The Light, as He is in The Light, we have fellowship one with another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.
MATT. 12:50.
For whosoever shall do the Will of My Father which is in heaven, the same is
My brother, and sister, and mother.
1JOHN 2:6.
He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked.
gb9 - The point about sin, is actually understanding why we commit these deeds and
resolving the why.
You appear to not be in the place of resolution. This is not attacking, it is being honest
and saying sin is evil behaviour, something we should not be doing, yet you continue to
take the line, "you are deceived because you must have the same failings as me."
All we can testify to is our own walk, and not anybody else. So I wonder again, what
is it that bothers you so, that is impossible to resolve in the Spirit?
And I am not trying to convince anyone about my walk, I am asking each to look at their
own walk and seek the way of Jesus.
These are all great verses when we look at the context of each one and see what they are really addressing when written. We view all scripture through the finished work of Christ and what he has already done on the cross and resurrection and that we too died with Him and rose to newness of life.
Who has been in here that's a perfectionist?
Who has been in here that says they abide by the Law?
Who said that works saves you?
Building strawmen is bloviation, too.
Ok, I begin to understand what you mean.
Forget about my past sins, they have been forgiven and forgotten.
In a real sense applying faith and believing we are forgiven in the present
does transform us. This is exactly what I am talking about when I say
knowing Jesus, knowing you are loved and accepted, is a purifying process
where the reasons and motivations around sinning are removed as we open
our hearts up to him.
I would suggest the way you are connecting behaviour and acceptance is
slightly wrong. Self worth drives much of our self behaviour and self comforting
actions, so knowing Christ love and His healing takes away the engine.
But this is not ignoring sinful behaviour in the future or the present, it is starting
to see the whole of an individual, with needs, hurts, failures and why Jesus is key
to everything in our lives.
The kind of teaching many are following plays into the wrong conclusions and condemns
the wrong issues. But I can understand how it works, and how it sounds very enticing.
A
Ariel82
Guest
Peterjens these are all false accusations and you should stop making them.
How did you get that from his simple statement:
He doesn't have to confess his sins to you,he did so to God and God will help Him overcome.
The image that he wants to stay a sinner and constantly beats himself over his son is a false perception of him in your head.
He knows God has forgiven him and loves him.
No one "wants to stay a sinner" and it's "not too much" for anyone to walk a holy life IF THE HOLY SPIRIT walks with them.
Our "safe place" is not in sin but in God's loving arms.
How did you get that from his simple statement:
He doesn't have to confess his sins to you,he did so to God and God will help Him overcome.
The image that he wants to stay a sinner and constantly beats himself over his son is a false perception of him in your head.
He knows God has forgiven him and loves him.
No one "wants to stay a sinner" and it's "not too much" for anyone to walk a holy life IF THE HOLY SPIRIT walks with them.
Our "safe place" is not in sin but in God's loving arms.
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A
Ariel82
Guest
Peterjens, You could avoid accusing people by simply changing how you word your responses.
.for example...
"Do you want to stay a sinner?"
Has a totally different tone then accusing someone by saying:
"You want to stay a sinner"
It also admits that you can't see a person's heart instead of assuming you know what others want,
.for example...
"Do you want to stay a sinner?"
Has a totally different tone then accusing someone by saying:
"You want to stay a sinner"
It also admits that you can't see a person's heart instead of assuming you know what others want,
see, here is the big disconnect. when I speak of sin, I am talking about what the Bible describes as sin, the standards set fourth in God's word. if one does not perfectly keep them 24/ then, by Biblical definition, one is a sinner, as they missed the mark, fell short of a standard set forth by a perfect and holy God.
you seem to be talking about feelings, as if feeling really strongly from the heart that you do not sin translates into a reality where you do not. this is beyond dangerous self-deception. 100% not true.
feelings have NOTHING to do with if one keeps Biblical standards or not. feelings should not create reality, they should reflect it.
Amen. My difficulty is many appear not to accept this is possible.
"you will be kept safe from committing future sins"
It is why I started using the phrase "hyper legalism", or OCD legalism, where insecurity
crept into the law.
My view of the law is like an iceburg. Under the surface things are going wrong, growing
developing, and sin is the fruit. Sin is like the fruit of the feelings, approaches, actions,
that fully declare we have left fellowship with God.
So just trying to have a clean slate, a walk that is righteous, misses the source, and core
problem in the heart and our attitudes.
So we need to repent of our sinful actions, but the work really is in our walk in love and learning
how to accept our needs, our weaknesses, our hurts, our rightful responses, but also the need to
forgive, to understand others, to see both our part and their part in everything.
It strikes me in empathy with others, showing care, carrying one anothers burdens we change
ourselves, we are transformed. God is a servant, so in serving we become like Him.
Some said heaven and hell at the same place. In heaven we feed each other, in hell we try
and feed ourselves and fail.